To think the 'information' the midwife gave me is almost propaganda?

[ethelfleda]

Recently had 24 week appointment. This is our first. Midwife asked if I had thought about feeding yet. I said I plan on breastfeeding. I say 'plan' because (as with everything else baby related) I am trying to keep an open mind as from what I hear, things don't always go according to plan! So I will try hard to breastfeed but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out for us.
She handed me a 20 odd page pamphlet thing and said it contained useful information on caring for a new born.

I started to read it today thinking it would be basic NHS info on how to feed, wind and change your baby etc. It was actually 20 odd pages of info telling me basically that if i don't breastfeed, my baby is more likely to develop cancer (as am I) as well as be admitted to hospital in their first year of life etc etc among other very scary statistics.
The language used was shocking IMO! And seemingly designed to make women who don't/can't breastfeed feel awful! Has anyone else had this information handed to them and thought it was way over the top??

Bertrand. Why are you focussing on my particular circumstances in this case first ?

I was talking about other people at a clinic and drop in who had NO IDEA about my specific circumstances and who were rude and judgemental when they saw me seeing my child with a bottle.

My particular circumstances were irrelevant to their judging me albecause they did not know them (and indeed for the ransoms at the clinic they were none of their business)

Bertrand. I have explained who judged me.

Hcp.

Other mothers.

That's who is doing the hiding

*judging

I think it's because why on earth would you experience negativity about BF?

God where to start!

Being discriminated against (by law) by being asked to leave or cover up if you breastfeed in a public place.

Ring harassed by strangers for breastfeeding (I have seen this several times in my life)

Unsupportive husband and/or family who expect you to feed in another room

Allegations of child abuse if you feed until a certain age.

Equating breastfeeding with sexual acts.

Anyone who does the above is a twat, but these people exist in their droves

Have you not seen the anti bf posts on Mumsnet? All the "I've got better things to do than sit on the sofa" "I don't want to get my boobs out in public- fine if you do, though" stuff?

Who the hell is judging the BF mothers Who is doing all this judging when the vast majority of British mothers ff?

Is there something wrong with your reading comprehension? So many posters have mentioned their own experiences on here with judgements made on them for both - are they all making it up? Every single one? And all the other people who talk about this on blogs, and articles in newspapers, and the poll mumsnet did recently about breastfeeding...all people exaggerating and making shit up for a laugh?

I was read on here "I don't want to get my private parts out in public" I reassured them that there's no need to expose their vagina when breastfeeding.

Isn't it funny how this attitude wouldn't have existed before formula was invented 🤔 women experience discrimination for BF as a direct result of formula being introduced into the mainstream. Not that that's the fault of formula parents of course, but let's not pretend that BF discrimination doesn't exist and why

I've seen people judged in real life and it is for the same reason most pointless judgements get made.

Somebody does something different to you, and you see that in itself as a judgement.

Or, you talk about the thing you're doing, nobody really wants to talk about it, and you take that as a judgement.

Or, you assume you're going to be judged, so make a whole heap of defensive comments. Other people find the defensiveness stressful, don't immediately validate the greatness of your choice, and you feel judged.

It is not unique to feeding. It happens over everything.

@EmotionalTeaspoon I'm in no way doubting the experience of posters on this thread!

But this does not mirror the population-wide statistics.

Perhaps there are experiences related to breastfeeding / formula feeding in our pasts that resonate with us particularly, and make us more likely to want to comment on posts like this and share our experiences with others.

The overall statistics, though, show that it is very much the norm to formula feed in this country. Those who still breastfeed at 12 months are very much in the minority. Even at 6-8 weeks after birth, only just over 40% are still breastfeeding (ooh, you could win a landslide FF referendum with those odds!). The Lancet study showed that the UK had the lowest breastfeeding rates in the world!

There is no problem whatsoever with supporting women to formula feed -- it clearly happens very, very successfully.

This gives some specific examples of the pressures at play: www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/sep/09/low-uk-breastfeeding-rates-down-to-social-pressures-over-routine-and-sleep

It also makes the very good point that most women who stop breastfeeding don't actually want to, but feel they have to.

PS to the poster who wondered about breastfeeding when you return to work, it's very doable. Obviously by 9-12 months the baby is no longer exclusively breastfeeding but is eating solids too, so volumes drop. I just went straight to doing morning and night-time breastfeeding, but other mums I know would pump (either at lunch time if they had over-supply during the day, or in the evening if not) and then either freeze it in advance or pass on daily bottles of breastmilk to the childminder/nursery to give when the babies are given milk in bottles (mine hated bottles so not an option! But she was quite happy with solids and water in the day, then BF morning and night).

Cherry you are wrong, those attitudes still existed before Formula. Hence women used to use wet nurses, or servant ladies to bf their children. Thank god for formula, as its a life saver, in the past babies who were unable to bf died.

As if on cue...BBC news article on the BF issue today...
And for whoever questioned my earlier comment on how difficult & painful I and many other people, have found the whole BF process, this latest poll on why women discontinued to BF, shows that 39% did so because they found it too painful.
I may have persevered with dc2, and didn't have the work constraints I had with my first, but I am by no means smug about that eventual 'success'...merely well aware that far too many people can and do suffer, and it can have a hugely demoralising effect.

It's definitely propaganda! My friend is a midwife and she said she is told to push BF as part of her job- she hates it! ( She BF her DC for 6 weeks then switched to formula.)

Just a quick long note to all mums to be planning on BF,,,

I had lots of trouble when my DD was born, kept "slipping" off the breast and I insisted she was struggling- the midwife and healthcares were nice but incredibly patronising saying," oh it's normal, all babies struggle etc" completely dismissing my concerns it was something else.

Then I noticed her tongue didn't seem to fully reach forward, and having being at school with a girl with a tongue tie I asked for the doctor to come and do another check up,,,, he did but was dismissive saying it's only slight, it shouldn't effect her feeding.

Long story short I ended up discharging ourselves from hospital after 5 days, feeling exhausted and so upset.
My DD had lost over 10% of her body weight at this point, I found out later!

I had an appt made the following week for the tongue tie clinic where she had it snipped (quick and DD was fine immediately after) they said it was a 50-75% tongue tie
And would definitely have impacted on her feeding technique.
I felt so relieved, and at the same time so angry with the maternity ward for not listening.
She was fine after that and I no longer needed to supplement with formula.

So if your instinct tells you something isn't right please trust it!

Penguin the being able to ff isn't the issue here though, is it? Do those statistics mention the women who ff but are suffering mental health problems directly related to the guilt they've been made to feel about it? The availability of formula and the number of people who do it is not in question. It's the way they're made to feel about it.

what is so sad that we are still in this situation. My oldest is almost 21; terrible long back to back labour, pph, lots of stitches, I was highly anaemic - borderline for blood transfusion.

Then I got dumped on the ward and left alone for 5 hours, while she suckled - I didnt know what else to do with her and there was no one to ask. Discharged the next day, 2 days later I had bleeding, scabby nipples, every feed was agony and mastitis well on its way.

She, meanwhile, having been born 9lbs1oz was starving. Thank god for experienced mum friends who told me to put her onto FF. What really really made me cry was when the HV came the next day and asked if I'd like to try BF again - the pain was so extreme that I couldnt possibly do it.

The HV was actaully, I guess doing the right thing by suggesting I try again, but the experience for me was so awful that I couldnt bring myself to do it.

And yes, I felt judged; in postnatal group (15 mums and babies?) another mum asked me out loud why I had stopped, that she too had found it difficult but loved her baby enough to keep trying.

With DD2, now 18 - half of a day of BF, nipples started bleeding again and that was it - headed down the ward to find the formula.

I'm sure BF is great if the problems are surmountable and there is real practical help available - but it's not, is it?

"Do those statistics mention the women who ff but are suffering mental health problems directly related to the guilt they've been made to feel about it?"

No, but by all means please do go and find some statistics about it. Breastfeeding does have protective qualities when it comes to mental health, so I wouldn't be surprised to find that formula feeding is associated with poorer mental health. But I'd be very interested in research and statistics around the causes of this (e.g. guilt, pressure, or something physiological? I am not well informed on this). Again, though, surely this is another good reason to promote breastfeeding for those who can?

NO argument from me that we need more mental health support geared around TTC, pregnancy, and early parenthood!

I was lucky to have amazing hands-on practical help from my midwife, a local breastfeeding help group in a (now closed ) SureStart centre, a wonderful GP, and older female friends and relatives. Totally not underestimating the difference it can make. I guess I'd sort of thought it was something that happened almost as if by magic, and as if the baby would know what to do. She didn't... I didn't... thankfully I had access to people who reassured and helped me. The experience definitely made me feel how important it was to continue to support people to breastfeed if I could do anything to help. And to campaign for 'the best support possible from the NHS, too, which means hands-on support as well as leaflets!

With that said, there are also fantastic free resources that can be accessed outside of the NHS, and that don't depend on family/friend support networks.... La Leche League in particular, plus online sources such as Kellymom.com (FANTASTIC source of information and advice).

Guilt is something you feel when you have done something deliberately wrong. I think the negative feelings mothers have when they FF after wanting to BF are closer to disappointment and anger and sadness - no one can 'make' someone who has done nothing wrong feel guilty. They may criticise and judge (if they are dickheads) and if they are really twattish they may even accuse. That should not 'make' anyone actually feel guilty....why not name the feelings more accurately?

Penguin, mothers who wanted to BF are at a higher risk of postnatal mental ill-health.

This indicates a need to support BF better, and to support those who gave up before they wanted to better, too.

By supporting better, I don't mean things like 'oh stop being depressed. You're making a fuss. There's no real difference between formula and breast.'

Clarifying- mothers who wanted to BF and then FF.

@TheGrumpySquirrel
I looked and looked for mix feeding advice but didn't found any - anything official just trotted out the line about using formula reducing your milk supply. I can say what worked for us (EBF for one week, almost EFF for next seven weeks, milk came in at 8 weeks so then 50/50 BF/FF to a year and now BF 20 mo once a day):

• feed baby at breast first, then offer formula top up if needed, rather than subbing a BF for a FF.
• use a bottle intended for expressed milk as seemed to be more like boob - we used Lansinoh and never had any issues with transferring between bottle and boob.
• do what you need to do to be happy, well rested and fed yourself. I gave up expressing after two weeks as I needed to sleep at some point(!). My milk came in after DD started sleeping thru the night at 6/7 weeks - I think as a result of me getting more rest. I also threw out the revolting BF tea someone gave me and any food meant to boost supply and stuck with food and drink that I enjoyed and wanted to eat/drink. Being happy and relaxed seems to be a huge part of it.

I heard Clare Byam Cook talking about BF on the radio a few months into all this and got her book from the library - very helpful practical advice which I wish I'd read during pregnancy.

I also remember how quickly the MW breast is best mantra quickly changed when she saw what a bloodied mess my boobs had become after dc1. She literally looked horrified and suddenly the whole tone had changed...There was suddenly no difference... how formula is wonderful these days...there was no point being a martyr, as the outcome didn't warrant that level of discomfort.
It was as if she had literally taken her sales hat off...and acknowledged the reality instead.

Yet again another thread with woman after woman saying they felt guilty & pressured into BFing and that they felt judged for FFing, and yet another thread with (sadly) other women telling them that their lived experiences are bollocks.

Anyway, another interesting perspective here:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2017/08/breastfeeding-not-some-cute-and-joyous-luxury-its-work

"Across the UK, women are being held back from doing the unpaid, exhausting, boring work each and every one of them was born to do. As a result, the UK risks falling behind competitors in terms of the efficient exploitation of womankind."

(The author is actually pro-breastfeeding, but makes the point that it is hard work, and society should be grateful to women for doing it - rather than haranguing them for not).