To think the 'information' the midwife gave me is almost propaganda?

[ethelfleda]

Recently had 24 week appointment. This is our first. Midwife asked if I had thought about feeding yet. I said I plan on breastfeeding. I say 'plan' because (as with everything else baby related) I am trying to keep an open mind as from what I hear, things don't always go according to plan! So I will try hard to breastfeed but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out for us.
She handed me a 20 odd page pamphlet thing and said it contained useful information on caring for a new born.

I started to read it today thinking it would be basic NHS info on how to feed, wind and change your baby etc. It was actually 20 odd pages of info telling me basically that if i don't breastfeed, my baby is more likely to develop cancer (as am I) as well as be admitted to hospital in their first year of life etc etc among other very scary statistics.
The language used was shocking IMO! And seemingly designed to make women who don't/can't breastfeed feel awful! Has anyone else had this information handed to them and thought it was way over the top??

Breast is best. No propaganda, it's a true, evidence based message. Yes, you and your baby are less likely to develop cancer, but it's not impossible. Yes, your baby is less likely to suffer ear and gastrointestinal infections, but not impossible. Will your baby develop cancer, ear infections, and other diseases if formula fed? Maybe, maybe not. More likely, yes, but that is different to definitely.

Breast is best. No propaganda, it's a true, evidence based message.

No it isn't. Breast is usually best but not in every case.

Yes that is obvious eive, nobody is contesting that, we are open minded and adaptable to different methods of feeding, if bf cannot happen for whatever reason.

While on average a message that 'breast is best' is fine but it should be balanced with the information that formula feeding is fine and perfectly safe. Breast is best but not by that much.

Breast feeding may give some protection from something which was not likely to happen in the first place.

Breast is best but not by that much

Human milk for human infants. Cows milk is for calfs. Breastmilk as a substance is far better, I can't believe believe have been sold this lie so well

Having said that I hate the 'breast is best' message, it's too problematic it should be 'breast is normal'. Breast as a substance is better for babies. As an experience, breastfeeding doesn't work out for everyone and is not always 'best'.

Right Sofa, have you read the 25 pages of posts here, some explaining what a harrowing time them and their baby had bf"

I have, it's horrible.

Can I make two points, though. Evidence from other countries shows that the uverwhelming majority of women who want to bf (not talking about people who made a consious decision not to) can, with the right help.
And it is very difficult to say on Mumsnet that you had a positive bf experience. Lots and lots of women do-but saying so is a cue for accusations of smugness, not understanding, making other people feel shitty........

And it is very difficult to say on Mumsnet that you had a positive bf experience. Lots and lots of women do-but saying so is a cue for accusations of smugness, not understanding, making other people feel shitty........

But this is surely because of the weird attitudes we have in this country. That we want to knock women down whatever they do. I had the opposite-hospitalisation experience but genuinely I would wish that on no-one and am genuinely pleased for others when it works out how they want it to.

The only thing that ever makes me angry on MN re this subject is when keyboard warriors start wittering on about supply issues not being genuine. For many women they really are.

Confess I've not read all the comments. But it gets a little tiresome, hearing the same argument time and time again.
Information is information. Just because it might make someone (normally someone who's not breastfed) uncomfortable, it doesn't make the information untrue. The benefits of breastfeeding are so vast, yet you constantly here from non breastfeeders that being told of these makes you feel guilty etc.
Guilt comes from you, you control it. Facts are facts and don't change just because someone chooses not to breastfeed.

"But this is surely because of the weird attitudes we have in this country. That we want to knock women down whatever they do."

I have never seen anyone on Mumsnet "knocking down" women who ff............

The problem also with the 'breast is best' message is that if you do try and access BF support whilst also using formula you get a LOT of aggro from other breastfeeders. They assume that you don't want to do what is best for your baby and believe all the stuff about even one bottle of formula is bad. I went to one BF cafe looking for support with mix feeding but instead was vilified.

Breast feeding may give some protection from something which was not likely to happen in the first place.

If you were to underpin your carseat selection process (for example) with this logic, you'd get a lot of grief on MN.

If breastfeeding is truly not possible, then formula is your best bet - but the data seems to indicate that it is, for the vast majority of women, possible - with support.

@RidingMyBike I really could have done with mix feeding advice and I want to try it again next time (currently TTC). When I go back to work after 6 months it would be nice to continue BF but I have never managed to express milk and when I mix fed last time my supply dried up. It's a shame this is such a controversial discussion!

I don't agree with that Bertrand, I wanted to bf both of my children, but because of different reasons, mainly to do with the impact on dc health, and failure to thrive, I had to do what I had to do. What they don't explain when you are pregnant, is the difficulties that some women face when they bf. Its not as easy for some as pop baby on the boob and away you go. I was led to believe that when I had my first, now I know its not at all like that for some women.

"I went to one BF cafe looking for support with mix feeding but instead was vilified"

Vilified? Seriously?

"Breast is best but not by that much."

Er, really? You honestly think that what women's bodies are specifically designed to produce to nurture our babies is "not that much" better than formula, artificially designed to replace it (without fully knowing what exactly is being replaced)? Does your formula adapt itself to your baby's saliva, delivering exactly what it needs at the time? Does it convey immunity benefits? Does it have anti-microbial properties that target specific bacteria without killing everything else? (www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jan/23/protein-in-breast-milk-could-be-used-to-combat-certain-bacteria-scientists-find). And, can I just point out particularly poignantly given the lack of medical research focusing around women that these are just the tiny number of benefits that we KNOW about.

Check out this terrifying chart from an article today on breastfeeding, comparing how many UK women are still breastfeeding at 12 months versus other countries:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/01/breastfeeding-qa-is-breast-really-best-for-mother-and-baby

But yes, of course, it's really terrible how we attack those who choose to formula feed and put them off, that's definitely the problem here

Is this a special new form of self-hating for women? (Well, what my body does isn't really that much better than Nestle. In fact Nestle is probably better in some cases. Go Nestle!).

I have never seen anyone on Mumsnet "knocking down" women who ff............

seriously Bert you must live in a parallel and deluded universe. All the 'formula is poison' stuff on the postnatal thread I was on after dd1 was just horrible and I deleted the group in the end. All of the snide comments when women say they have supply problems.

But yes, of course, it's really terrible how we attack those who choose to formula feed and put them off, that's definitely the problem here

I quite clearly said that the issue was the other way too, women being knocked whatever they do.

All the 'formula is poison' stuff on the postnatal thread

In the first instance, must't you actually be able to take someone seriously in order to feel impugned by them?

"Formula is poison"? Does anyone actually say that?

And what do you mean by snide comments?

In the first instance, must't you actually be able to take someone seriously in order to feel impugned by them?

Right yes. You've just had your first baby, have pnd in large part due to failure to breastfeed. Yeah don't let it get to you a group of women constantly going on about the evils of formula. Whatever you say

When I had DD 9 years ago, the formula was hidden away and not offered. It was thanks to a no nonsense other new mother that I located them but I still had to go get them myself whereas other mums had midwives spend hours with them teaching them to breastfeed, all while the poor mothers cried in frustration

And what do you mean by snide comments?

I've been told several times over the years that everyone can breastfeed with the 'right support' or that only a tiny proportion can't and that I am making up the issues that I had. Perhaps not in this thread, but my experience is my experience and it made me feel shit at the time. Yes, I was oversensitive about it OK, but the feelings were real. In any case 2-15% is at least 1 in 50 so real problems are common actually.

As I said it's great when people have good experiences of breastfeeding and its sad people feel that they can't discuss without appearing smug. But I also am allowed to talk about my own experience.