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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Benefit bashing

341 replies

LovelyBath77 · 29/07/2017 20:50

To think MN can be a bit benefit bashing at times. Even if people are rightfully claiming / ill / poor etc.

Recently, I have seen someone having a hard time although ill and having a baby and considering claiming tax credits. I also have had a hard time although illness (both me and DP) and low wage means claiming some tax credits.

I can understand the rage for those fraudulently claiming benefits or the like but why for those legitimately claiming? or AIBU?

OP posts:
Nightshirt · 30/07/2017 20:24

While I agree that benefits should go to people who need them, they should realise that it's a temporary measure to enable them to get back on track. It's not a permanent way of life.

Do you include the sick and disabled in this?

dottymay · 30/07/2017 21:04

I think it's a temporary measure if it related to able people gaining work.

I've been made redundent 8 times in the space of 2.5 years and I was on benafits for just 3 months in between jobs 6 and 7 because I was mental exhausted of being hired working for a few months then being sacked from jobs I hated anyway I needed a break but I always wanted to work again.

Being disabled is completely different to baby poppers who use each child as an extra wage

Bluntness100 · 30/07/2017 21:12

Do you include the sick and disabled in this

What a horrible attack. Clearly the poster isn't.

I'm shocked at the amount of people that actually think benefits are there to help people have kids, quit their jobs and become stay at home parents. No it's not, statutory maternity pay is, past that get your ass back into work and provide for your own.

dottymay · 30/07/2017 21:27

I'm about to become a mum and I'm not entitled to maturity pay as I'm a freelance supply teacher working for an agency I don't want to be a stay at home parent but for some time I will have to be as I also can't afford childcare....... your suggestion is to just not earn? And be too proud to apply for benafits?

user1468353179 · 30/07/2017 21:40

No nightshirt I don't. I'm talking about people who'd rather live on benefits because it's "easier", rather than get off their arses like most of us have had to. My DH has multiple sclerosis so I'm not talking about those that can't work, it's those who think that they don't have to.

Nightshirt · 30/07/2017 23:47

Ok, user146.. thank you.

Bunnyfuller · 31/07/2017 00:14

Genuine question: if, as the mum of school aged older children (13/14) you choose not to work, and your partner doesn't earn high wages, are you entitled to claim anything?

This is my SIL and I know she's dropped out of being a TA, so wondered. My poor DB had a stroke earlier this year, was working 2 jobs to support them

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 31/07/2017 00:26

Ironically I've never seen so much benefits bashing on MN than I have on this very thread Hmm

Look, if you're entitled to anything, take it and don't feel guilty. In a few years you may not be entitled to it, so get it while you can, even if you don't need it. The system will take from you your whole life don't feel bad about getting a little back. I'll reserve my anger for large corporation tax dodgers and non-tax paying millionaires rather than a single mum living in social housing with 3 children under 5 thanks 👍🏽

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 31/07/2017 00:37

I am a benefit basher, but like most, would never think of bashing those families when both work FT

Soooo, both parents in all families should, in your book, work full time? Even if they are an unskilled worker and working full time doesn't cover the cost of childcare? Or if they like to see their children for more than 2 days a week? What if they're desperately unhappy in their job? They should stay in it of course, because pride is more important than mental health 🙄

malificent7 · 31/07/2017 08:12

I dont see why being a sahm in the pre school years is not seen as a ft job anyway.
It is way tougher than going out to work and way more important.

Loving the flat screen tv stereotypes ad though that is the height of luxury too!
I have a flat screen tv but i inherited it when my nan died... along with much of her furniture!

I wish society was a bit more into sharing and a bit less hung up on who has what.

Tbh i dont envy those who dont work.... i just wish that jobs were more permanent with decent wages and flexible.

SuperBeagle · 31/07/2017 08:25

I wish society was a bit more into sharing and a bit less hung up on who has what.

But it's not "sharing", is it? That would imply some reciprocal benefit. Those whose taxes go towards benefits do not receive any benefit from someone choosing to stay home when they cannot afford to.

makeourfuture · 31/07/2017 08:28

I'll reserve my anger for large corporation tax dodgers and non-tax paying millionaires rather than a single mum living in social housing with 3 children under 5 thanks

Not just yes. Hell yes!!!

GetAHaircutCarl · 31/07/2017 08:30

How is it 'sharing' to ask working parents to pay more tax so that other parents don't have to work if they don't fancy it?Confused

Anatidae · 31/07/2017 08:31

Work hard and good things will come to you

That's only part of the story though isn't it? Yes work hard, yes take opportunities, yes you may have to graft and struggle and sacrifice. I have done all those things.

But.... I'm also well aware that I'm lucky I wasn't born with a severe disability. That I haven't been severely injured, or developed a debilitating physical or mental disorder.

There's a combination of factors for success: where you start, what life throws at you and how you deal with it.

So someone starting with vast wealth probably has to work less hard than someone coming off a council estate /abusive home. And someone who has always been healthy is 'luckier' than someone who is severely injured.

I'm not disputing the importance of working hard and sticking with it. But there's a significant chance factor too in everyone's lives.

makeourfuture · 31/07/2017 08:36

How is it 'sharing' to ask working parents to pay more tax so that other parents don't have to work if they don't fancy it

Simplistic. We all, all of us, pay taxes spent on things we never use.

It is the social contract.

Sleepyblueocean · 31/07/2017 08:38

Paying taxes and receiving benefits aren't mutually exclusive. There is a higher rate tax payer and a benefit receiver in this household. There are also others who are tax payers and benefit receivers at different times in their lives.

GetAHaircutCarl · 31/07/2017 08:44

The social contract has fairness at its heart. That each person who can contribute will do so for the benefit of those that cannot, not for the benefit of those who choose not to.

Bluntness100 · 31/07/2017 08:46

your suggestion is to just not earn? And be too proud to apply for benefits

The discussion is about people who have a job, chose to have a child, wish to quit their job and have the state make up the difference to enable them the luxury of being a stay at home parent.

Gottagetmoving · 31/07/2017 08:58

We pay into the system and its insurance that we can claim on if we find ourselves ill or incapacitated for whatever reason.
Its disgusting that people are looked down on or shamed for claiming when they need to. Yes, there are people who get caught up in a life on benefits but despite what you see on tv programmes they are a tiny minority. Many of those lack skills, education and have emotional or mental health issues.

I am grateful that I have always had the ability to work apart from a short time when my children were little and I had recently divorced. It was bloody difficult managing on benefits and certainly no life of luxury.
I think it's sad people get so angry and judgemental of those on benefits.
I also think it's sad that a mother with tiny children has to go out to work and that she is condemned if she doesn't.

CazY777 · 31/07/2017 09:11

I've worked hard for 20 years. Now I'm having a couple of years 'off' while my child is young before going back to work for another 25 years. The amount we get in benefits is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount lost to corporate tax evasion, MPs expenses, funding a life of luxury for the monarch, bailing out banks which then continue to pay more in bonuses to one person than I'll earn in my entire career. So bollocks to feeling guilty or ashamed!

Lucysky2017 · 31/07/2017 09:15

"How is it 'sharing' to ask working parents to pay more tax so that other parents don't have to work if they don't fancy it?" ... well exactly which is why full time working parents have very strong views on this topic. However those who take what is given are not legally in the wrong. It is the rules that we should change if we don't like them.

I would like to see such labour shortages that employers have to put up wages with the effect that in work benefits become a thing of the past. That would be the best solution.

makeourfuture · 31/07/2017 09:22

Basic income may be a way forward.

gandalf456 · 31/07/2017 09:41

Bunnyfuller, she would get child tax credit but they base it on the previous tax year's income so she may have a wait. Is she able to work or is she his carer? If so, she might get carer's allowance and he may get esa or pip depending how bad he is. Best to check with your local job centre

swingofthings · 31/07/2017 10:03

There's more to life than work and chasing the next promotion. I didn't have children so i could put them in full time childcare. I don't think there is anything shameful in prioritising your very young children for a few years and the government is willing to help with that. If you don't like it then lobby the government.
This exactly the selfish, entitled attitude of more and more people relying on the benefit system that means that there are more and more benefit bashers. It's totally insulting to those who pay taxes (by that I mean more than they take back) who don't get these entitlement.

I am particular vocal on this because like many, I ended up a single mum of two toddlers. I could have done like many, go on IS, get benefits to pay my mortgage (whilst watching my investment grow on its own), and have it much much easier. Instead I worked FT, in a demanding job, dropped my kids at nursery at 8pm to pick them up at 6pm and then exhausted, looked after them and the house and tried hard to be a good mum. I too would have loved to spend more time with my kids but instead, I supported them myself.

So yes, there's plenty to be ashamed of when you have children and feel you have a right to other's money to be able to do what they would love to do themselves.

AgnesNitt1976 · 31/07/2017 10:04

I work in care and earn not much over the minimum wage I work full time. I claim tax credits and child benefit and am not ashamed to do so, without these benefits I would not be able to pay my rent etc.

For my employer to raise wages to allow me not to claim tax credits would mean that the funding authorities would need to increase the rates that they pay for the people I support. Considering the cuts to social care this will be highly unlikely at this time or in the near future.