To think nursery isn't *better* for children?

[Anon8604]

I'm part of an NCT group, all of the babies are around a year old. Parents have made a variety of decisions about work and childcare, some back to work full time, some part time and some not returning to work. The babies whose parents are working are all in nursery for between 3 and 5 days a week.

Lately there have been lots of conversations about how the babies are getting on at nursery. Obviously it's great that they are mostly settling in well, but I've felt like some of the comments have bordered on implying that nursery is better than staying at home. FWIW, I think different choices work for different families, not that one is better than the other.

The comments have been stuff like:

"She does so many activities at nursery, way more than you could ever do at home. It's really good for her development, I think she'd miss out on stuff if I kept her at home."

"It's better for them to socialise at an early age. You could always tell the school kids who didn't go to nursery cause they'd stand around at break times on their own."

"Her language is streets ahead compared to a couple of months ago, there's no way she'd have come on so much without nursery."

"It's really hard settling them in, but having an example of a working mum is worth it. I want them to know you have to work for things in life."

AIBU to think they're being a bit judgemental about the people who've chosen to stay home? I feel like if someone said something comparable about staying at home (like they think their child does better with one to one attention or something) then it'd be seen as judging those who are choosing to use a nursery, but somehow criticising people who aren't using nursery seems to be more acceptable?

[thepatchworkcat]

Twattymctwatterson I don't mean that mothers SHOULD feel guilt or that I think it's EXPECTED but I just know from personal experience of friends telling me they felt guilty that it is a thing that happens. And that in this case maybe they're just trying to make each other feel better. I personally didn't feel any guilt at all but I know some do.

[EezerGoode]

It's different strokes for different folks...as a mum you need a thick skin whatever you decide...don't take stuff to heart op ,or you will tie yourself up in knots.as long as you are happy with your choice to work or not.use nursery or not ...thats fine.no one else matters .

[PoppyTree]

Yep tis guilt.

Saying mums are setting a much better example to their kids by going to work is drivel... What about the mums who stayed at home pre 50 years ago? What about the example they were setting?

Even now, I know some women who have not been out to work for 25 years, some with kids still at home and some whose kids left 5 years ago, and some who didn't work til the youngest was about 20. And their kids are hardworking and industrious career people now.

You can only be the best mum you can be to your child or children, and a working mum is not less of a mum than a SAHM, and a SAHM is not beneath a working mum.

I would say that going to a nursery is good for an 'only' child and you have very few (or no) other small kiddies around you, as it helps them socialise with their peers, but you could just take them to a creche or a playbarn for 3-4 hours a week for that.

Anyone saying negative things about the choice they didn't make is either jealous of you, or feeling guilty (or both!)

[Groupie123]

I don't know anyone who feels guilty about sending their kids to nursery. Admittedly I know a lot of youngish high earning working women, for whom working part time isn't an option, so nursery is almost an expectation after maternity leave.

[twattymctwatterson]

Thepatch sorry my comment wasn't directed at you specifically- it just annoys me that people start goady threads like this so lots of patronising people can come along and talk about how nursery is "a barely adequate substitute" to family care. No one talks like this to fathers

[BertramTheWalrus]

DS1 has been in nursery for 3 hours a day 5 days a week since he was 20 months old, and I was a SAHM for the first year he went to nursery. I sent him to nursery even though he could have sah with me because I believe nursery does offer activities I don't do at home like craft, messy play, singing, and I think it does him a world of good to be part of a group of children his own age. Going to a toddler group for 2 hours once a week is not the same. I do think children miss out when they spend the vast majority of time in the company of just one adult. Children need other children.

I have never felt a second's guilt about sending him to nursery.

[Kjs81]

Total defensiveness. I've seen it time and again. I work part-time but don't believe that nurseries etc. are essential for socialisation and other such made-up reasons. If I were to voice this opinion and vocalise how I think parents are the best carers for their children (yes I get this isn't always possible; (it wasn't in my case) I'd be shot down and deemed judgmental etc etc, so I don't. Yet I've had to listen to this non-stop nonsense about babies requiring socialisation like the future of humankind depends on it for years now, along with the other (often usually as nonsensical) frequently-trotted out reasons, which are usually stated in a way that would make any SAHP feel like it's a criticism. Seems to be ok to shout loudly and frequently about the benefits of babies in childcare, but not so much the other way.....

[swingofthings]

FWIW, I think different choices work for different families, not that one is better than the other.
Of course that's the case. The problem is that the decision whether kids go to nursery or not is rarely based on what is best for THEM but on what is best for parents OR more often, what they can afford.

My kids attended nursery from the time they were 14 months for the first and 9 months for the second. They are now teenagers so I can look back and assess.

I would say that for DD, nursery was definitely the right place for her. I went back to work when she was 8 months old and her aunt looked after her full time to start with, unless she admitted that she found looking after DD very hard work (compared to her three children who were at school) and we agreed to transfer to a nursery. She loved it. She was a very confident child, who loved being around people including strangers and needed a lot of mental stimulation. The environment suited her perfect. She is now 17 and applying to study Medicine!

DS started FT and seemed ok, but by the time he was 18 months old, I felt he wasn't totally happy and I had to make the hard decision to reduce my hours so I could have Wednesdays off. This worked brilliantly for him as he did enjoy the mental stimulation of being at nursery too but he also needed a break and more mummy time so I felt that definitely was the right decision for him (although made things very tough financially!).

I really do think that was is best depends on the child and the nursery. I was lucky that the nursery I used was amazing, very child centered with staff who actually truly enjoyed the job and bonded with the kids and little turnover. My two remained in touch with a couple of their key worker for some years (until we moved) after they started school and they did consider nursery staff like an extended family.

[PoppyTree]

@tubbyinthehottub

I'm a bit shocked at all these posters assuming the mothers feel guilty. I think they actually believe nursery has all those benefits you mentioned for their child and don't realise it's upsetting for you to hear how great it is if you've chosen another way.

But this is what the working mums who send their child to nursery are doing to the OP. Blabbing about how much better it is their way. I am sure they are not doing it to be horrid, but it IS going coming across as critical of stay at home mums. (Whether they intend it to or not.)

[PoppyTree]

I do have to say I think stay at home mums are criticised more than working mums. I know working mums gets attacked, but stay at home mums get it worse imo.

[Groupie123]

@Kjs81 - I had sahp who didn't do anything with me. No activities. Didn't even leave the house weeks at a him, and often see Indian sahp do the same with their kids in the UK. They are housewives with a kid not SAHP. For these kids nursery is a lifeline. So keep your judgement to yourself.

[Clandestino]

Theymisheardme

What I found really off-putting was the fact that they seemed to be totally immersed in their kids' achievements like it was the only thing that existed and any interest beyond that meant you were an ignorant mother.
I never expressed any opinions on that. Whatever you as a parent decide is your choice. I went back to work because I felt it was best for all of us and never looked back. I know I would be unhappy as a SAHP and DD was happy where she was. If a parent decides to stay at home, it's none of my business. All I am saying is that I avoided socialising in toddler and Mums groups because of what I mentioned.

[PoppyTree]

Also wanted to add that not all working mums feel guilty (or NEED to,) but the ones who keep carping on about how much better their choice is, (and/or attacking stay at home mums,) clearly are feeling some kind of guilt. I don't see how anyone could deny that to be honest.

[roundaboutthetown]

I never felt guilty about any of my choices and, tbh, didn't give a toss what anyone else did with their kids - their kid, their problem. Their children only came to my attention if they bit, hit, shoved, swore at or grabbed my children's toys off them, all traits just as common in children in nurseries as in children of SAHMs, so far as I can tell. There was definitely no correlation between nursery attendance and advanced speaking or reading skills, but then you aren't generally going to learn advanced speech from other children of the same age, anyway. At age 4, when they all started reception together, they all had immature social, emotional and behavioural skills, because they were all only four years old.

[VestalVirgin]

Whether nursery is better depends of a lot of factors, doesn't it?

For one, it depends on the nursery, and on the parent.

SAHP who isn't really interested in doing stuff with or talking to the child is not better than nursery.

And SAHM who constantly has to worry about her future and about money because she cannot really afford to stay at home, won't have that much of a positive impact on a child, either.

On the other hand, I am sure there are shitty nurseries.

Really useless to talk about it unless you want to make an individual decision.

[SunnySkiesSleepsintheMorning]

Gawd, this thread has some goady little toads, doesn't it?! Going on about guilt as if they're throwing their babies into crackdens instead of childcare. FYI, if you need to justify your own decisions by putting down others "oh they feel guilty" then you don't feel good about yours either. People who are truly happy don't give a shit about what other people think. What happened to MN? We used to be more balanced....or perhaps I just never ventured into these threads.

Some years ago, I worked at a pre-school that was only open 9-12 and most of the children came from families with SAHP. It wasn't cheap either. People signed their children up before they were even born!

[Babbitywabbit]

I do think sometimes WOHM are criticised for acknowledging that returning to work after ML (as opposed to taking some years out) has enabled them to progress in their career.

As I've already said, as a parent of now grown up children, the bonus of being a WOHM for me has been being able to keep my career going, and paying into my pension. If I'd given up work, it's highly unlikely I'd have been able to pick up my career again later at the same level, and outright impossible that my earnings and pension would be what they are now.

As far as my kids are concerned, I've no doubt they'd be Just as fine if I'd stayed at home. I've never claimed childcare was better (or worse.) Thing is, if as a mum you ever talk about how glad you are you stayed in the workplace, a minority will always interpret that as 'using childcare was better than being a SAHM'.

In other words, although I think for many of us childcare is a 'neutral' thing (neither better nor worse than not using it) it's the fact that it faciliates the work element of our life which is the bonus

[NataliaOsipova]

Really useless to talk about it unless you want to make an individual decision.

This is very true. The one thing that always strikes me about MN is how different people's lives are. What's the right decision for one person in one set of circumstances has no relevance to another in a completely different position.

[Olympiathequeen]

They clearly feel guilty about their choice (not that there's anything to feel guilty about) and are trying to justify their choice to themselves and others. I think saying to to sahms in particular is a way of diverting what they feel is a judgemental attitude to their choice.

Fact is most mums respect the choice of the other person even though they may be convinced their choice is right for them and their child

No matter what you do with your child you always feel you should be doing more.

[BertieBotts]

I feel like this is such a thing when DC are little, we hear any kind of neutral or positive comment on a choice we made differently and suddenly it's a criticism of our choice. That probably then in turn makes us feel more defensive and like we have to justify our own choices which perpetuates this feeling of a divide.

Why is that? I don't see what purpose it serves and I well remember spending DS's first two or three years in an almost constant state of feeling attacked!

At a guess I think it would come from an idea that we have that parenting is something that we get scored at and/or have to do "right", we get bombarded with all of this information especially in the first year about how to do things "in the right way" rather than information about different choices, and we're encouraged to pick something which is "perfect" for our situation rather than "good enough".

[lelapaletute]

I'm already dreading going back to work and sending my baby to nursery. So yes I look up studies etc that indicate it will be good for her,try and convince myself she'll benefit etc - because I haven't got the choice to stay with her, it breaks my heart, and I want to feel better about it. I think this is reasonably normal. But I wouldn't spout about it to SAHMs, as it's bad manners. Mind you it's easy to drop a clanger unintentionally. Was chatting with a lady in my NCT group about whether we'll have another baby, and was halfway through a ramble about how important my siblings has been to me growing up when I remembered that she's had her baby after several rounds of IVF and almost certainly will not be having another baby whether she wants one or not and felt like an absolute jerk. It happens!

[Rhubarbtart9]

I recon it's to do with her insecurities about her choices (and all parents have those). She is trying to justify the nursery care choice in her mind as she wants to feel she has done the right thing. And actually the reality is she might possibly feel a bit crap about it.

[LaurieMarlow]

In answer Bertie, I think it's because ...

We've been told (and know) that parenting our children is the most important thing we'll ever do. We want to do it perfectly

However the world doesn't facilitate this. It's impossible to be the perfect wife, employee, mother, friend, daughter, etc etc as we've been sold by our culture and media all at the same time.

For example, the perfect employee in my job would give at least 55 hours a week to it, which would include plenty of unpaid overtime and client socialising.

That's obviously impossible to reconcile with trying to be a perfect mother, never mind anything else.

So we make compromises, but we find it difficult to come to terms the areas we feel we haven't reached the mark. The ridiculous myth that we can 'have it all' still prevails and we feel its pressure.

When we're insecure about our choices, we are defensive of them and criticise opposing choices. But we're often in a state of being insecure about our choices, because no matter what we do, we coming up short somewhere.

Or at least that's how I see it.

[Neoflex]

After reading all this, the only parents group I want to join is where we all rollerblade around the streets naked with neon wigs with banners saying we don't give a flying fook what people think.
Why on earth do we feel the need to justify our choices? Why do we feel attacked by others justifying their choices? Why are we throwing around words like guilt, separation anxiety, social development bla bla bla. Is your child fed? Tick. Is your child clothed? Tick. Is your child safe? Healthy? Tick.
The best caregiver? Is a happy caregiver. You can do everything by the book but if you are miserable about it what is the point?

[BertieBotts]

Yes I think you're right.