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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think what we pay the cleaner is none of this woman's business!

174 replies

Silverst0rm · 27/07/2017 18:19

Someone I know from the school recommended the cleaner she has to me as the lady was looking for more hours and our previous cleaner had left. When the lady came for the "interview", there must have been some misunderstanding because of the language barrier, so she came on a day I was actually out. DH was home, but he doesn't really know what's going on. So he said she could do 10 hours per week (he was right there as that was what the last cleaner did). When he asked her how much per hour, she said £12.50, but DH apparently said we might as well round it up to £15 because it's easier to work in round numbers.

Anyway she's been coming for a few weeks now and she's lovely, so all good.

Just now, I bumped into the friend in the shop and she just started on me - what am I "playing at", etc. At first I thought she was joking, but no she wasn't. She said I have messed up her arrangement with no consultation because now the cleaning lady wants £15 per hour from her and she only gives her £11.50!

WIBU? I can see it might be a bit irritating, but was there any need to be rude to me in a shop over something like this?

OP posts:
Roomster101 · 29/07/2017 13:23

Self-satisfied posters responding to my suggestion a cleaner should get paid holiday.

Why do you think they are "self satisfied"? If you are self employed (I have been) it is quite important that you don't act like a paid employee as this has implications for tax, national insurance etc i.e. you can get in trouble with the Inland Revenue. Therefore you have to charge a higher rate per hour to take this into account. The fact that you don't know that doesn't make you a better or more generous person. It just means that you don't know how things work.

sparechange · 29/07/2017 13:34

My mother used to give our cleaning lady paid holiday when we went on holiday so she didn't lose out on a week or two weeks of income.

Your mother dictated when your cleaner was allowed time off? That's awful!
My cleaner can take time off whenever she wants, and whenever suits her best

I'm not making her fit in around my plans and then also trying to dress it up as a nice thing to do

SapphireStrange · 29/07/2017 13:35

None of your 'friend's business.

And you're all out of order those of you snipping at the OP for having a big house, living in Chelsea, and apparently having a dirty house, not knowing the value of money, 'stealth boasting' and having a DH who can't add up. Wind your necks in. FFS.

Rossigigi · 29/07/2017 13:45

Not your fault OP, I think your friend was annoyed and I can understand why, but it was not done on purpose.

alltouchedout · 29/07/2017 13:55

Your friend sounds unpleasant and you and your dh sound very nice.

DanglyEarOrnaments · 29/07/2017 14:02

The bare bones of the matter are that the cleaner can set her rates where she likes and a client can take the price or not. Neither party should be getting cross about it.

The friend who got annoyed should just find a cheaper service and the cleaner just charge out her new rates elsewhere. I would consider £15 per hour to be the higher end of mid-priced for cleaning but certainly is within the parameter of 'the going rate' and is certainly not at the highest end.

It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks of anyone else's business rates as long as she gets all the business she needs at that rate and I know that she will do.

Original poster
Silverst0rm · 29/07/2017 14:13

Thankyou very much Confused

I admit I've never offered to pay sickness or holiday pay as we are a private family, not an agency. I think for sickness and holiday pay you're getting into the realms of NI and tax and some kind of contract. As above, the cleaning lady is free to come and go with no notice. I have tended to give about 2 weeks pay as an Xmas bonus though and a pay increase every year or so - if you're getting bonuses from multiple clients that could be a substantial amount.

I've never worked as a cleaner myself, but I did work as a care assistant to the elderly while at uni amongst other min wage jobs.

I do get annoyed by decorators giving ridiculous quotes - like £950 to paint a living room (not inc the ceiling)! We're not totally dim in that respect.

OP posts:
sparechange · 29/07/2017 14:49

OP, can I have the number of your decorator please?! I've just been quoted £6.5k to do the living room plus hallways in our house!

Not sure if it just meant he didn't want the job, or was totally chancing his arm...

Smitff · 29/07/2017 15:43

I'm in a similar situation to OP except with our babysitter. She used to work FT with a family we sort of knew. They cut her hours because the DH lost his job. The babysitter was looking for work to make up the hours. Her husband is disabled, she has three children, she's the main breadwinner. I'm a SAHM. She works with us 5 mornings a week, although I originally was looking for 3 mornings a week. I pay her the equivalent of £5/hr more than the original family - but I asked the original family first if this was okay for them. I didn't want to step on their toes. I wanted to pay her more as I'd known her from before the time when her DH had a work accident which left him disabled. She really went through the mill. Whatever I could do, within my means, to help I was and remain happy to do. The extra hours and extra pay are ok for us, and our babysitter feels that she is earning her pay rather than receiving a handout. Turns out the original family are paying her less because they have her fully on the books so she can claim the equivalent of NI and NHS benefits (it's a bit different where we live).

Everyone is happy with this arrangement. I am absolutely comfortable with what we have: we have more so we help; our babysitter is earning more and is happier and enjoys her work more.

laurelstar · 29/07/2017 16:33

sparechange It was nothing to do with my mother dictating when the cleaner could have time off. You've wilfully misunderstood me. She paid her for her time off when the family was away, on the basis that if she had a paid break, so should the cleaning lady.

sparechange · 29/07/2017 16:59

But Laurel, it's hardly a holiday for her, is it?!
Unless you're the first or last client of the day, it just means a few hours off in between clients to hang around in town and twiddle your thumbs because you can't move all your other clients around
I'd find that a total pain in the arse!

If you want to do the nice thing, surely that would be to pay them while they are on holiday, on the dates they've chosen, and when it can be a proper break for them
Otherwise it is just pointless tokenism

laurelstar · 29/07/2017 17:06

She lived locally. It was a nice thing to do and had nothing to do with her having time off herself when she needed it. I don't understand why it would make you angry yet you're not criticising anyone here who dismissed the idea of paid time off altogether.

sparechange · 29/07/2017 21:17

I'm not angry!
I'm bemused that you think it's the pinacle of good cleaner-employment-practice, when it's something that is neither necessary under the terms of engaging a self-employed cleaner, nor the best/most convenient thing you can do

It's really not something for you to be so sanctimonious about!

laurelstar · 29/07/2017 22:08

huh? I didn't say it was the pinnacle. You're singling me out and going for me repeatedly over this. Please have the last word and feel better.

Trills · 30/07/2017 09:02

I didn't think you were making a big deal of it Laurel - I thought you were just saying "this is a thing we do, it is nice". Which it is. Even if the cleaner is in-between jobs in an inconvenient place, she'd getting paid for not-working rather than paid for working.

AtHomeDadGlos · 30/07/2017 09:34

Who cares how much the OP is paying, or how her and her DH arrived at the amount? The question she asked was is her friend BU to be pissed off that the cleaner now wants more money from her as the OP is paying more.

I can see why she's annoyed, but I suppose if she wants to keep the cleaner then she'll have to pay or the cleaner will have to back down. Presumably the cleaner knows her clients well enough to set her rates. She'll have to accept that charging £3/4p/h more than before will mean that some might leave her. London is very competitive.

Also, to those moaning that £15p/h is too much - you can't compare London wage rates with those outside the M25.

So, OP, YANBU to pay the cleaner what you and your DH feels is a fair wage. YFIBU to be overly pissed off at you, but NBU to be annoyed at her cleaner. Your cleaner is potentially BU to expect a 30-40% rise from other clients based on your generosity, but that's her business model and prerogative.

Yellowheart · 30/07/2017 09:41

How likely is the cleaner to be declaring this? Is it cash in hand? Sorry if that's already been answered up thread

Roomster101 · 30/07/2017 10:35

I would be a bit annoyed with both the cleaner and friend as she has did them both a favour and the result of this is that she has to either pay the cleaner more or lose her. Depending on her other commitments 10hrs is a quite lot of work and it is possible that she doesn't really need anything from other clients as a result.

FluffyPotato · 30/07/2017 10:43

Oh to live a life where you don't clean your own house or mow your own grass Hmm

KimchiLaLa · 30/07/2017 11:08

£15 ph?! Your DH just likes to give money away does he? That's up to you but the cleaner is pulling a fast one by suddenly putting prices up by almost £3. My mum's cleaner started at £8 ph 15 years ago, she's now on 11ph. And she's bloody brilliant. I've come across others her price who have done nothing but sweep up a little and tried to drag their time out.

JillTheReckless · 30/07/2017 11:45

The right to paid holiday isn't determined by whether someone is employed or self-employed. Under the Working Time Regulations this applies to someone who is a 'worker', whether self employed or not. Without wishing to be too boring (bit late for that!) whether someone is a 'worker' is judged on factors such as whether you have control over their time (compared to say someone doing work at home, at their own pace, and delivering it by a deadline)

So paid holiday would apply in most cleaning situations even if the cleaner is freelance (not in situations where you engage an agency who can send different cleaners each week)

My understanding is that a nanny can't be self employed and should always be engaged on an employment basis (i.e. with tax, N.I. Etc - though obviously in many cases the hours will be below the threshold but even then I think you should still properly set up an employer/employee arrangement with HMRC). I suspect that lots of people don't do it properly in this way but there we go.

On topic - I don't think it's any of the other woman's business what you pay your nanny, but, as others have said, I'm slightly Confused that your husband thought it easier to round up on this way!

Longislandicetee · 30/07/2017 11:52

This thread is somewhat jaw dropping. Having a go at someone for being generous....think i have heard it all now.Hmm

OP, don't pay your cleaner for holidays or sick pay unless she's actually providing a service on those days.... unless you're actively seeking to become overly acquainted with HMRC!

Roomster101 · 30/07/2017 13:02

JillTheReckless Whether or not someone is self employed certainly is a factor in whether you have to pay them for holidays. They are only entitled to paid holidays if they are employees rather than self employed. If this is the case the employer should also be sorting out tax, NI pension etc..

itstoolateforthisbollox · 01/08/2017 18:50

On topic - I don't think it's any of the other woman's business what you pay your nanny

It's not on topic, since we are talking about cleaners, not nannies.

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