Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think what we pay the cleaner is none of this woman's business!

174 replies

Silverst0rm · 27/07/2017 18:19

Someone I know from the school recommended the cleaner she has to me as the lady was looking for more hours and our previous cleaner had left. When the lady came for the "interview", there must have been some misunderstanding because of the language barrier, so she came on a day I was actually out. DH was home, but he doesn't really know what's going on. So he said she could do 10 hours per week (he was right there as that was what the last cleaner did). When he asked her how much per hour, she said £12.50, but DH apparently said we might as well round it up to £15 because it's easier to work in round numbers.

Anyway she's been coming for a few weeks now and she's lovely, so all good.

Just now, I bumped into the friend in the shop and she just started on me - what am I "playing at", etc. At first I thought she was joking, but no she wasn't. She said I have messed up her arrangement with no consultation because now the cleaning lady wants £15 per hour from her and she only gives her £11.50!

WIBU? I can see it might be a bit irritating, but was there any need to be rude to me in a shop over something like this?

OP posts:
DanglyEarOrnaments · 29/07/2017 09:37

Does it truly matter what size house OP has, that has no real bearing on the issue.

The dilemma is not about that, people have lots of different houses and I've cleaned all different sizes. It's actually about the friend's reaction to the husband being decent enough to pay the going rate for a cleaner and taking issue because this highlighted to the cleaner that she was charging a lowish rate in the first place.

In the case of the friend being charged more, I always believe that the cleaner has a responsibility to cost out her business and charge what she needs to still be left with an hourly rate she can live on, all business costs considered so it is a bit crass of her to suddenly raise her rates like that BUT ...

Cleaners are human and sometimes start their business with no clue as to what is and isn't a good rate. I did the same when I first started my cleaning business 20 years ago. I did no know that there was such a high demand that I could charge my worth and i did not know that my costs would drive my actual wages down so that the rate i was charging would not be what I actually earned. I was not a business woman back then, i was a cleaning lady.

I learned as i went along and over the years I learned that nobody else but me was stopping me from charging what I needed to go forward with a successful business. The market could certainly bear the price I charged and demand is always there.

Last year we've had to add VAT to the charge and yet again i doubted, I thought well we charge a premium rate of £15 per hour as it is nobody will want to pay £18 per hour but at the same time i must charge this now as it is a legal obligation. Oh the sleepless nights! So I had no choice and I charged out the VAT on top of the rate and to my surprise almost everyone I quoted said 'Ok that's fine ' and just took the price! it has not held us back AT ALL we continue to grow. What hold sus back is trying to find quality staff in good time to train up and meet demand. A good professional cleaning service is hard to find and cleaners are hard to find. There are many cheaper options but in order to be cheap they have to cut down on aspects of service level.

Cleaners must charge what they need to stay in business, there is no reason not to, the clients they would like to work for will pay the rate they need and others who want it cheap must go elsewhere as they are simply not a good match for one another.

I suppose i'm trying to highlight that the cleaner is learning to run her business more effectively as we all do so although it wasn't the best move to undercharge then realise and adjust her rates so suddenly, she is just learning what she is worth and what rates the market will actually bear and adjusting accordingly as she goes.

Trills · 29/07/2017 09:47

The DH isn't paying "the going rate", he's offering more than was asked for.

The size of house matters a little, if people think that understanding what it means to have money be an issue is important in understanding the friend's reaction.

I think the friend is wrong to have a go at the OP, but I can understand that if she was at the limit of her budget she might be quite annoyed that friend-who-doesn't-know-the-value-of-money has caused her trouble.

Roomster101 · 29/07/2017 10:08

It's not clear that the DH knew what the "going rate" was. His given reason for offering a higher amount seems unlikely unless he is a bit stupid. It might be that he knows what the going rate is and didn't want to pay less or it could be that he was ensuring that the cleaner would prefer to work for him rather than other clients including OP's friend.

Original poster
Silverst0rm · 29/07/2017 10:12

Thankyou for the comments.
I'm the first to admit we're hardly living on the breadline, but my friend hardly on a budget either! Her DH is something to do with hedge funds and she doesn't work herself. I am a SAHM too but I would never try and pay someone the lowest I can get away with, or leave them lists of extra things to do. I would feel guilty about having someone clean my house for the minimum rate and I'd rather do it myself frankly.

OP posts:
sparechange · 29/07/2017 10:12

dangly
The only flaw in your argument is that the cleaner asked OP/OP's husband for £12.50 an hour, not £15

I live in the neighbouring area/postcode to OP and £15 is very much not the going rate around here so if the cleaner needs that rate for her business to survive, she is in trouble.

There are plenty of people in SW3 who see thousands of pounds as small change (you won't get change from £5m for a 5-bed house there, probably closer to £10m if it's on the 'right' street) but most people with that attitude will have a daily or a housekeeper
So the cleaner's marker for people to fleece in the locality is limited

Original poster
Silverst0rm · 29/07/2017 10:18

One friend who we were on holiday with, actually phoned her cleaner from the beach and asked her to take all the shoes out of her and her husband's closet and polish them Shock. I think its a disgrace and I think that's out of touch.

OP posts:
Trills · 29/07/2017 10:26

I wouldn't phone (I think asynchronous communication is more polite, unless there's an emergency) but I have left notes much saying "I've been on holiday so nothing has got dirty, could you do X and Y and water the plants please?".

mammmamia · 29/07/2017 10:31

But Op... You're paying far more than the minimum even if you'd gone with your friend's rate. The minimum wage in the UK is 6.70 and the London living wage is 9.70. So even at 12.50 you're paying enough of a premium on this which is why to your friend, it just looks like you're either showing off or trying to buy the cleaner's loyalty. That wouldn't go down well where I live and I'm in a similar area.

For what it's worth, I pay my cleaner to come while we are on holiday and yes I do discuss extra work she can do while we are away. Maybe not polishing shoes but definitely extra stuff that wouldn't get done otherwise. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and she's happy to earn the money while we are away. I work almost full time and long hours in the city and so does my DH so we can't possibly get everything done and need her support.

mammmamia · 29/07/2017 10:34

Also I'd understand if she perhaps negotiated an extra 50p an hour or something so you're paying her £13 but for your DH just to round it up unprompted is really odd. Perhaps he was being generous but that's not really what you do when you're sharing outside help with friends. It really doesn't work like that and makes you look like a twat. Sorry I am with your friend on this one.

MrsOpinionated · 29/07/2017 10:47

I would be wary of using this cleaner. You can tell alot about a person based on how they treat others.

She wouldnt have your work if your friend hadn't recommended her.

Fair enough if she had just increased the price a little for your friend but to get her to match it is unfair.

If a future client of hers offers £18 to her she'll probably expect you to do the same!

itstoolateforthisbollox · 29/07/2017 10:51

I would be wary of using this cleaner. You can tell alot about a person based on how they treat others

Yes, you should only use cleaners that never ask for a pay rise, and take less than they think they are worth.
Cleaners who know their place, as it were?

itstoolateforthisbollox · 29/07/2017 10:53

Happy to be corrected but my understanding (when I was researching cost of nannies but my understanding is that it applies to cleaners too) is that if you pass the £113 threshold you were responsible for paying tax and pension

You have been corrected already, and you are still wrong. What part of self employed confuses you so?

laurelstar · 29/07/2017 10:55

Doesn't anyone give their cleaner a paid holiday when they're on holiday, rather than extra jobs to do from the beach? You get one, why shouldn't she?
Just a thought.

Original poster
Silverst0rm · 29/07/2017 11:04

Our last cleaner was on £14. Even though I was the one who used to pay her, DH probably had a rough idea of the rate and this is where he got £15 from. Also our last cleaner was young with no DC and this lady is probably in her early 50s with teenage sons.
He had no idea the cleaner was coming and doesn't even really know the woman who recommended her.
The other woman did not say the cleaner is no longer working for her. I don't know how it will pan out there.
I don't like confrontation which was why I posted after she turned on me. Yes I can kind of see her point of view, but I had no idea what she paid her cleaner anyway. If it's that big a deal she should have told me in the first place.

OP posts:
MrsOpinionated · 29/07/2017 11:07

The fact she is a cleaner is irrelevant. I would be saying this about anyone.

Rather than thinking op is just a really nice and generous client, she is now demanding the same from her other clients!

She also hasn't thought this through as what of op isn't happy with her standard of cleaning etc. She could then lose both customers!

Roomster101 · 29/07/2017 11:29

Doesn't anyone give their cleaner a paid holiday when they're on holiday, rather than extra jobs to do from the beach? You get one, why shouldn't she?

If a cleaner is self employed, the like other self employed people she will (or should) charge enough to pay herself for holidays. If you pay for her holidays then you are treating her as an employee and therefore should be organising tax, NI, pension etc.

sparechange · 29/07/2017 11:51

Doesn't anyone give their cleaner a paid holiday when they're on holiday, rather than extra jobs to do from the beach? You get one, why shouldn't she?

My cleaner gets paid when she goes on holiday

When I'm on holiday and we are all out of the house, she likes to use it as a opportunity to do the deep clean jobs
If we are away for 3 weeks, she usually comes in for 2 of them, but otherwise, it gives her time to do jobs that she can't fit in around the usual cleaning routine

Trills · 29/07/2017 11:54

If I were self-employed I would not expect a paid holiday, I would expect to be paid for the work that I did, with the freedom to pick up more work or decline work as I saw fit.

Lack of paid holiday is another reason why the amount you pay to a cleaner should not be compared to things like "minimum wage" as someone did above.

mammmamia · 29/07/2017 11:58

I wasn't comparing it to minimum wage. I was saying that the rate the OP's friend was paying is much more than even living wage which reflects the fact the cleaner is self employed etc.

It's also irrelevant that the new cleaner is older and has two teenage sons. Why should she get paid more because of that? I don't get paid more than my peers at work who don't have children just because I do. Makes no sense. I don't know why this thread has wound me up but it really has. It's disconnected from reality and shows a real lack of social awareness. Sorry.

m0therofdragons · 29/07/2017 12:29

Doesn't anyone give their cleaner a paid holiday when they're on holiday, rather than extra jobs to do from the beach? You get one, why shouldn't she?

Because she runs her own business in the same way I did as a PR consultant - paid for hours worked with no holiday pay etc.

laurelstar · 29/07/2017 12:47

Self-satisfied posters responding to my suggestion a cleaner should get paid holiday. Being a cleaner is never going to be comparable to having your own PR consultancy as you're selling your own manual labour and there's only one of you.
My mother used to give our cleaning lady paid holiday when we went on holiday so she didn't lose out on a week or two weeks of income. She always said "I get paid holiday, so I treat her the same way". Now I have a cleaning lady for our AirBnB I do the same.

laurelstar · 29/07/2017 12:51

One of the best things Labour did, bringing in paid holiday for agency staff.
Many companies are trying to roll back the idea of workers' rights now altogether by forcing staff to be "self-employed" when they are nothing of the sort - I'm thinking of Uber and Deliveroo, the so-called gig economy.
Does a cleaning lady really want to be self-employed? I bet they'd prefer a few more rights rather than selling labour by the hour.
OP tell your "friend" who's angry you're paying your cleaner too much to fuck off and do her own hoovering.

lovemycatsanddog · 29/07/2017 13:07

A lot of cleaners work cash in hand, especially if they have other money coming into the house,so does this cleaner have all those things to pay out,or is she cash in hand,if so shes doing well
I think £15 is a lot of money, as i said on another thread,i was paid £3-50 an hour,even though minimum wage was more,had to ask for a rise, and they were millionares too, although this was 10 years ago,
Having said that though cleaning is very hard work if you are doing a lot,
I think i spent half of my wages on seeing physios with my back

Arealhumanbeing · 29/07/2017 13:12

Skilled or not, cleaning is important work.

YANBU.

m0therofdragons · 29/07/2017 13:13

My PR consultancy was just me 🙄 and setting up for events can be pretty manual but okay cleaner should obviously get a better deal.