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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think what we pay the cleaner is none of this woman's business!

174 replies

Silverst0rm · 27/07/2017 18:19

Someone I know from the school recommended the cleaner she has to me as the lady was looking for more hours and our previous cleaner had left. When the lady came for the "interview", there must have been some misunderstanding because of the language barrier, so she came on a day I was actually out. DH was home, but he doesn't really know what's going on. So he said she could do 10 hours per week (he was right there as that was what the last cleaner did). When he asked her how much per hour, she said £12.50, but DH apparently said we might as well round it up to £15 because it's easier to work in round numbers.

Anyway she's been coming for a few weeks now and she's lovely, so all good.

Just now, I bumped into the friend in the shop and she just started on me - what am I "playing at", etc. At first I thought she was joking, but no she wasn't. She said I have messed up her arrangement with no consultation because now the cleaning lady wants £15 per hour from her and she only gives her £11.50!

WIBU? I can see it might be a bit irritating, but was there any need to be rude to me in a shop over something like this?

OP posts:
Baalam · 28/07/2017 10:52

Maybe he's trying to buy her loyalty. You've effectively nicked her from your friend, which is a bit of a wanky thing to do.

Baalam · 28/07/2017 10:53

Maybe he's trying to buy her loyalty. You've effectively nicked her from your friend, which is a bit of a wanky thing to do.

HoneyDragon · 28/07/2017 10:57

They haven't nicked her. The cleaner had spaces to fill. She can still servicevthe other woman.

Roomster101 · 28/07/2017 13:19

They haven't nicked her. The cleaner had spaces to fill. She can still servicevthe other woman.

They have made working for the OP's friend less attractive though and the cleaner will now only do it for more money. I think that is similar to "nicking her".

m0therofdragons · 28/07/2017 15:48

A university graduate nurse gets £11.30 an hour so although I get that a cleaner is self employed £15 seems bonkers to me and completely out of touch with how wages work. Mind you 10hours a week suggests you have a large home and probably out of touch with "normal" life most of us live. Feels like a mn stealth boast. Most people wouldn't pay £100 a month extra because it's easier. Wtf?

But in answer to your question, friend is bu but cleaner is bu to play you off against each other.

Does anyone remember the Harry Enfield comedy sketch where the guy states "I'm considerably richer than yoooou!" Op could just say that at her ex friend then laugh smugly.

Rkd808 · 28/07/2017 16:05

Are you also paying tax and pension on top of that ? As legally you should be as she's earning more that £113 per week from you?

HipsterHunter · 28/07/2017 16:21

£15/hour is pretty chunky! She is on to a good thing with you.

It is well above market rate in London!

Is she doing 2h per day or two blocks of 5h? Most cleaners woudl love to have a job that was 2x 5h blocks as there is such a minimization of travel time/costs.

ElizabethShaw · 28/07/2017 16:23

She's self employed Rkd, so she does her own tax return and the £15 an hour covers her tax, insurance, expenses, holiday, sick pay, pension contributions etc.

Original poster
Silverst0rm · 28/07/2017 16:31

She is doing two blocks of 5 hours which suits her and us. We. Am be flexible about days. I pay her cash and everyone I know pays cash for this kind of thing.
I don't think we are out of touch at all Confused - it's a standard 5 bed terrace townhouse so not large at all given we have 3 kids, but it's harder cleaning houses that are narrower and on many floors because of the stairs. I know how long it takes me. Plus it has to be worth her time to come as she has an hour commute.

OP posts:
Original poster
Silverst0rm · 28/07/2017 16:35

She has her lunch here and a coffee break which is fair enough.

OP posts:
Oliversmumsarmy · 28/07/2017 16:39

Apart from the fact your dh is paying your new cleaner £1200+ more than she asked for. I think your friend has a right to be more than a little pissed off with you and I don't think you have done the cleaner any favours.
Given the cleaner doesn't speak English well she might have not understood that £15 per hour is a one off and might lose more than she has gained if your friend and others decide they cant afford her.
I also doubt that anyone will do you any favours in the future knowing that doing so would end up losing them money.

itstoolateforthisbollox · 28/07/2017 16:42

Are you also paying tax and pension on top of that ? As legally you should be as she's earning more that £113 per week from you?

Not remotely true.

DanglyEarOrnaments · 28/07/2017 16:55

Our cleaning service is charged at £15 per hour plus VAT so £18 per person per hour. We are always fully booked and mostly struggle to hire staff in time to meet demand even at that rate.

itstoolateforthisbollox · 28/07/2017 16:57

How much of that does the cleaner get though?

DanglyEarOrnaments · 28/07/2017 16:59

And no you don't set up a pension or make NI or tax deductions for a self employed contractor, you are a client not an employer, they will sort out their own wages which is usually whatever is left once they have paid all their business costs and then pay their own taxes and NI contributions at the year end.

DanglyEarOrnaments · 28/07/2017 17:03

it'stoolate in our company we pay our employees £10 per hour but we are a premium service so need to pay higher than average. I have heard of a lot of cleaning companies only charging say £12 per hour and paying near min wage but that is not how we operate.

Self employed cleaners working direct for clients need to be charging at least £12 per hour themselves to be able to run the business costs and if you want to grow with staff then margins are tight even if you charge £15 plus VAT like we do. You have to know your numbers and be prepared to go without wages yourself for years before you can begin to profit enough to live on when you own a cleaning business and all self employed cleaners need to consider all of their costs before deciding on their rates.

mammmamia · 28/07/2017 17:44

Sorry but your DH is mad and I would be annoyed too if I was your friend.
You must have a lot of money if you can just round up like that because it's 'easier'

Fruitcocktail6 · 28/07/2017 18:04

OP you sound more and more out of touch with each post. You have previously mentioned 5 staircases, and you have a house in SW3 that needs 10 hours from a cleaner a week. I very much doubt your house is 'standard' except maybe for Chelsea

However, nothing wrong with being loaded!

It isn't really on for your cleaner to be demanding more from her other clients due to you overpaying her!

harshbuttrue1980 · 28/07/2017 18:04

I think that you sound like kind people. You clearly have a lot of money, and there's nothing wrong with that. When people have a lot of money, I think its great that they share the wealth through the economy, benefiting people who have less. Cleaners generally don't have much money, and your generosity means that she might be less stressed out about bills than she would have been, or might pay the extra money into a pension. Your friend can mind her own business, and probably just feels embarrassed because you are more generous and socially conscious than her!! I bet the cleaner is really loyal to you out of appreciation for you treating her so well.

Rkd808 · 28/07/2017 18:09

Itstoolate
Happy to be corrected but my understanding (when I was researching cost of nannies but my understanding is that it applies to cleaners too) is that if you pass the £113 threshold you were responsible for paying tax and pension.
Having a quick read online I'd be surprised if you're correct as the cleaner doesn't supply her own material, can't dictate her hours, isn't allowed to send someone else if she decides not to come and is paid by the hour not by the work needing doing.

ElizabethShaw · 28/07/2017 18:16

Nannies are employed, cleaners are generally self-employed - and yes, they can and do dictate working hours, prices, bring their own equipment and send others to do the work.

Janiston · 28/07/2017 18:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DanglyEarOrnaments · 28/07/2017 18:30

Rkd cleaners are all self employed unless they work for a private company who do employ them and send them to their clients.

Even if they work for an agency they are self employed, the agency just supply them with work and get paid separately, the self employed cleaners are paid directly by the clients and the agency get paid a fee by direct debit for their part.

Cleaners can indeed dictate their own hours, we all do and they can charge as they wish (given that the demand is still there at whatever price) they usually bring equipment and supplies they need to do the job and can employ others to take over the clients they can no longer fit in.

A cleaner is a small business owner.

Obviously I am talking about those who operate legitimately, professionally ie those who are registered to pay taxes, fully insured and not for 'cash under the table' - those who do it for cash pocket money are neither employed by their clients nor or they self employed they are just trading illegally.

Original poster
Silverst0rm · 28/07/2017 19:00

I'm not sure if the lady pays tax and I can't really ask her that. She did tell me her husband has his own construction company, so I presume he must be.

DH employs a lot of people in about 6 countries so I would hope he's not losing the plot Confused. Tbh, he usually doesn't miss a trick. It's just the odd thing that's a bit confusing with him.

OP posts:
m0therofdragons · 28/07/2017 20:10

standard 5 bed terrace

"Standard" and "5 bed terrace" don't go in the same sentence 😂😂😂 the percentage of people in 5 bed houses means it's not standard in normal terms. It's fine to be rich but always good to keep a true awareness that your normal is not the average normal.