To think the system stinks??

[purpleprincessa]

Bit of backstory...

DP has been in the U.K. almost 10 years now. We met when he first got here and was claiming asylum. Asylum claim failed, he went off radar. At the time I couldn't deal with the stress due to me being concerned about my job and whether I would lose it due to his status. (I work in a position of trust)

We got back together 2 years ago and sought legal advice straight away. Few problems with the solicitor not giving good advice and basically trying to scam more and more money, so we changed in November last year.

Applied for an unmarried partners visa initially and provided the evidence required. DP now has to sign on at the Home Office monthly and had an appointment for further submissions in July this year.

We have had to change our application due to me finding out I'm pregnant so are applying for a family visa rather than unmarried partners/ spousal route and have provided evidence of pregnancy (scans, hospital appointment, letter from midwife).

Had news today that the Home Office have denied his application and we now have to appeal (costing yet more money!!)

DP just wants to get the visa so he can work and provide for his family!! We are both feeling so low and the pressure is too much at what should be a happy time in our lives!!

I'd understand if he was playing the system and getting all sorts of money and support but he's not! He's very qualified to get a good job and contribute to the tax and national insurance system!!

AIBU to be pissed off at the system?

He wasn't just trafficked though was he?

He probably paid some illegal traffickers to get him into Europe?

That's why we have this system so people who need genuine asylum get it.

He's pretty much fucked if he's been here as an illegal for 7 years, regardless of you being up the duff.

Is his country nice? I'd be making plans to move there in your situation for the long term

You would be crazy to give up your job, home and family support, especially when you are pregnant, to move with this man to a country he saw fit to claim asylum from. Do you realise it might be impossible to leave with your child if things don't work out?

If your dp is going to stay with you how is he going to fund his lifestyle and have you seen any evidence of income? does he have a bank account, has he been working illegally? Or do his family post him goods that he sells? Do you rent or own a property.? Secondly his story about travel to UK could be made up, you may never know the truth. Suggest reading story about journalist Lynn Barber who was kind to an asylum seeker who turned out not to be who he said he was. I would be wary about spending your money on your dp visa applications, be careful

herroyalfatty: there are plenty of people who you (or I, or anyone) may think should not have children, criminals or not. But presumably you don't think they should be forcibly separated from their families?

Are you really saying that a failed asylum seeker whose life, personality and circumstances you don't know is a 'criminal' who should have no right to family life - and nor should his (non-criminal) child or partner?

I never once said that. I said he's been breaking the law for ten years and at the minute has no right to build a life in the UK.
And if someone else broke the law I would expect them to pay for their crimes, and if that involved a prison sentence and being separated from their family then so be it.

Oh and as for. Are you really saying that a failed asylum seeker whose life, personality and circumstances you don't know is a 'criminal'

Yes. Yes I am. If you are not granted asylum and not given the right to stay in the country then you are breaking the law by staying, making you a criminal.

we're not talking about a prison sentence for a set amount of time, this is a permanent refusal to allow a man to live with his family.

you don't know him and neither do I - he could have been trying it on with his asylum application, or he could have been genuine and turned down for for any number of reasons: the system really is a total mess, believe me. And the situation in his home country could well have changed in the last ten years, hence why he is willing to go back.

if he has been here illegally for ten years, he will not have been taking anything from 'the system' and if he gets a family or spouse visa, he will not be allowed to claim any type of benefit either, but will be able to work.

Who has really suffered from his coming here, and is the crime of immigration outside the rules so bad that he and his partner and child should have no right to live together?

We aren't saying he has no right to his family. Just that he has no right to live here. They can all go live in his home country considering it's safe to do so.
So no one is saying he can never have his family.
Just that what he has done is illegal. Which means he's not allowed to do it. If you do it you commit a crime. Committing a crime makes you a criminal.
You can feel sorry for him all you like but he knew it was against the law to stay, he has been supporting himself with his own money all this time from his business so clearly it wasn't that unsafe in his home country ten years ago, so he has absolutely no sympathy from me.
He chose to break the law. Now he has to live with the consequences of that.

what if his home country won't give her a visa, what then?

That's something they should have considered before deciding to have a child (op has admitted the baby was planned)
It's not my problem if they were foolish enough to believe a child would give him automatic staying rights.
And I still feel no sympathy. They have been very very foolish.

and you are equating money and safety when you have no idea of the circumstances. There are profitable businesses in very dangerous countries you know.

He has broken the law by staying. But if he has been using his own money to support himself, so what really? Who has he hurt?

Anyway, the point is that the situation has now changed and it is not just him who has to 'live with the consequences' - it is his (British) child and (British) partner, who writes that she loves him. You can belittle them by using phrases like 'shacked up' if you want - they are a family and should be able to choose which of their two countries they want to live in.

thankfully the System isn't so naive ......

Why not get married in his country & then apply along the usual spousal visa route?
Your right about the system as it is way more difficult for a British person to get a visa for their non European husband than it is for a citizen of another EU country to do so.
Perhaps get him to go back now & make the arrangements before the baby is born. That way you won't have to risk taking the baby to his country and avoid any possible issues of leaving with it.

unless that counties laws prevent them from doing so. In which case you either live separately or find a country willing to take all of you.

And yes there are businesses in dangerous countries, but he was apparently afraid of traffickers and owed them money, yet he was willing to risk withdrawing cash? Come on. It's ridiculous.

the law is an ass.

I'm out - good luck to the OP for your pregnancy and future life. Hope you manage to find a stable life together wherever you end up.

he will not have been taking anything from 'the system

Had he never sort medical treatment? Does he use the parks, bins, police service?

Is he doing a job a legal person could do? Is he taking up space in a house when there's a national shortage?

Why not get married in his country & then apply along the usual spousal visa route?

Well as someone else said who knows if that country will allow them to get married, but secondly you have to have a certain level of income to import a spouse. If she gives up her job to go there, she will definitely not have that level of income.

I come from Ireland, a nation of immigrants. My father emigrated to Canada in the 50s by just getting on a plane. The world has become a burocratic nightmare and personally I don't like the term illegal immigrant, which makes people sound like criminals.

"I don't like the term illegal immigrant, which makes people sound like criminals"

When you break the law, that's exactly what you are.

I'm glad that now the general election's passed, people can stop the pretence of "Tory scum" and the fashionable Corbyn-supporting; it's much simpler to understand people when they nearly unanimously agree with Conservative policies.

Both my parents are immigrants and so is my husband. The system is a mess and can be a nightmare to deal with. But I really don't think someone who tried to falsely claim asylum and then lived here illegally for 10 years should have the right to stay, sorry OP. Where is he from? I'm guessing Near/Middle East or North Africa?...his story doesn't add up to me I'm afraid.

No sympathy. he is an illegal economic immigrant and the authorities have reached the correct decision.

Interesting to see if he sticks with op now his application has failed

he's claiming asylum yet you're both willing to go and live in his home country with a baby, that doesn't make sense. What's the asylum from?
This
He's not really an asylum seeker and he's been living here illegally for years.
The system doesn't stink, You knew it, but chose to Have a baby with him.
It was a risk and it's failed.
Genuine asylum seekers make new lives for themselves here, however they go about it the correct way.
He's done a disappearing act for a number of years, so you would have to think, why would they grant him a visa now?
Think you may have to start preparing things incase he is refused one.
Are you really prepared to move to his country?
Do you honestly think it is a good idea?
Leaving your family and job behind?
If he is really concerned about people threatening his life, why would you want to move there with your child?
What if you can't?
He may have lied to you about how he got into the country.
If he has so much money and assets back home, why was he trafficked into the uk?
Does he really have these?
Did this really happen?
Please think about this very carefully about your next step op.
If it all goes wrong you may find it hard to come back.