To think some people waste the ambulance service time

[hannah1992]

So last night I drove my dd who's 19 months to the out of hours doctor which is located at our hospital. You have to wait at a&e reception and speak to reception etc. Anyway three ambulances came in and obviously they get first priority in booking people in. We had been waiting in line for 25 minutes while these ambulances were sorted and my dd was screaming the whole time (she has an ear infection). In the three ambulances was a man that was sent to the gp part so didn't even need a hospital doctor. Another had a teenage boy and his mum. He had a bandage around his hand/wrist BUT his dad had followed the ambulance in the car. He was walking around didn't seem to be in very much pain aibu in the fact that his dad had drove behind the ambulance, why couldn't he have just drove him in the car?

I was just stood there thinking the ambulance certainly in my area (not sure about others) are very stretched and people should stop calling ambulances when a) they can go to hospital in the car ie: it's not a life threatening emergency and let the ambulance service deal with people who are seriously ill. I just kept thinking while they have been dealing with someone who needed a gp rather than the hospital and someone who's parents could have drove him to hospital somebody could have been dying of a heart attack.

YoungGirl I was a 20 something last year when 'just a cold' landed me in resus! (wheezy asthmatic - just a cold turned into a very nasty chest infection - I was on the lark with the kids hours before!).

Whilst I understand your frustration. Everytime I've needed an ambulance, it's been a red alert (aim is to get to you within 8minutes) and they've always had a series of questions beforehand. I usually only get half way through them as cant talk for struggling to breathe so you never know. Perhaps the call-handler that took that call could do with a little extra training? and the person who called given a little talk to possibly not overreact for the future.

Away that is completely different - as I said, both of the main points on the thread are true. Yes some people need an ambulance when they appear fine to the untrained eye, AND yet there is also a fucktonne of people who call an ambulance for FA. Not a non-sequitur. In this case, the guy just had a cold and got a flea in his ear. The machinery guy lost limbs and most of his blood!

Sorry if I sound touchy but my DS nearly died because some fuckwit called an ambulance for a chest infection he'd already had for 3 weeks and I had to wait, bleeding, with a first responder who couldn't find DS heartbeat.

Personally I wouldn't call an ambulance unless I had bits hanging off...

my DS nearly died because some fuckwit called an ambulance for a chest infection he'd already had for 3 weeks and I had to wait, bleeding, with a first responder who couldn't find DS heartbeat.

How did you know that?

because some fuckwit called an ambulance for a chest infection he'd already had for 3 weeks

Wow. There's some seriously questionable first responders working out there if they're giving out medical info of another patient! the fact this fuckwit had had a chest infection for three weeks is neither here nor there. I've syrugglef on before when a paramedic had refused to take me thinking I wsd Judy having a panic attack. I wasn't. I was really poorly and ironically ended up being rushed back in even poorlier. I think I was one of those fuckwits as I'd had it for nearly a fortnight and it wouldn't shift. None of the antibiotics the GP had already given me prior to this were working, no body was listening to me and I was just getting poorlier.

I'm really sorry for your situation but the fact your area is clearly short of ambulance vehicles is not the fuckwits fault. We've also had our fleet shortened.

*struggled on before

Okay away everyone who abuses the ambulance service is actually suffering with a hidden illness and I should have just let DS die so that aforementioned fuckwit could be told by a specialized emergency vehicle to get a GP appointment.

And yes, the paramedic told me - questionable or not, I couldn't "help" fuckwits every day without the occasional rant. He could not believe how long I was kept waiting.

I phoned the NHS help line (not sure what it's called nowadays) and they insisted on paramedics, who then assessed me and took me to hospital. I had only phoned for advice and said my husband could take me, but they wanted me seen asap. When I got to the hospital I wasn't prioritised over serious 'walk in' cases.

No paramedic has ever told me what his / her last job was. It's completely unprofessional to do so.

Of course your DS shouldn't have been left to die. Dont be so ridiculous.

The issue here, is clearly that they didn't have enough of a fleet to get to the both of you in time. The 'fuckwit' doesn't get to decide who sees him first. The triage system does.

If you want something done about it, may I suggest you write to your MP and lobby him about how the unnecessary cuts have led to ambulance services having to sell some of their fleet off to still be able to keep their head above the water. All in the name of austerity. The people who made these decisions at the top are the real fuckwits. Not someone who rightly or wrongly, was prioritised over your DS.

She says about 1/3 of her calls do not need an ambulance

But do some of that 1/3 need fairly urgent attention?

I'm thinking eg of my MIL (89) who fell over a few weeks ago. SIL lives around the corner but doesn't drive as she can't see well enough to pass the vision test. Anyway, she came round and called an ambulance, Paramedics came, assessed her and said she was a bit shook up but ok, and went on their way.

Maybe what's needed is a second tier service for things like that? But then she might have broken something and you don't know until a trained professional does an assessment?

The problem is a lack of primary care out of hours, and obviously there are a lot of people who can't or don't drive (especially the elderly and disabled, who are probably more likely to call an ambulance in the first place).

That said, my mum had to go to A&E a while ago and said it was full of drunks (it was a Saturday evening).

Maybe what's needed is a second tier service for things like that? But then she might have broken something and you don't know until a trained professional does an assessment?

Agreed. Many areas already do this where they have a falls team etc but again budgets.
My Mums friend and herself once rang an ambulance when one wasn't needed (she fell, was fine, ambulance crew said she was fine, wasn't winter so no risk of hypothermia setting in, she was up and chatting to the paramedics offering to make them a cuppa whilst they waited for a crew to become available to check her over - they weren't even going to take her but she and her friend insisted).

The irony of it is she has the on call button, and the falls team.

I didnt even ring the doctor when I fell during a blackout recently, I got the biggest bollocking off the physio when he saw the state of my side.

Away do you really think that someone who the paramedic told me was a "frequent flyer" and a time waster, and who was advised by the crew to get a GP appointment in the morning, was rightly prioritized over my DS who - as a result of the fuckwit's selfish actions - lost most of his blood, damaged his kidneys, and spent the first week of life in NICU? Because that is idiotic.

The face that I "shouldn't know" about the prior patient is irrelevant - I do. And every single member of the ambulance service would agree with me that they deal with loads of hopeless calls from people who demand an ambulance when they do not need an ambulance. There was even an OP on here yesterday asking at what point in labour she should call an ambulance.... only when 300 MN'ers told her that was inappropriate did she back down.

I don't think we need more resources to meet the demands of idiots who do things like that. Plus, my DH works as a consultant for the same trust - most years it's new IPads for them to get rid of the budget at year end. So a questionable allocation of resources, yes - but hardly caused by austerity or "unnecessary cuts".

The first guy brought in was sent to see a gp so obviously it wasn't an emergency and absolutely no need for an ambulance! Second young lad had burnt his hand! I heard the paramedic say brought in on parents request so he had obviously not recommended he needed to come by ambulance he then said dad followed in car. He's burnt his hand on the cooker that is not a life or death emergency and does not need an ambulance.

My Nanna had pneumonia few years ago the doctors surgery called an ambulance they told her to get a taxi or ask a relative to drive her! Suspected pneumonia wasn't a reason for an ambulance apparently. She waited all day until my dad got in from work by this time she could barely breath he drove her to the hospital where she had to wait a further hour to be seen by the nurse who then took her straight to a doctor and explained she couldn't wait any longer! She ended up in there for a month yet someone that has a minor burn can get an ambulance

Why did your Nanna wait all day?

That sounds like bad communication. If she needed to be in hospital quickly, she shouldn't have waited around all day.

I'm not talking about people with underlying health conditions now. Some things need hospital but not an ambulance
If you burn your hand, sprain your ankle, have a cold/flu, hurt your hand, fell 3 days ago and now have a sore wrist, have an earphone stuck in your ear... you don't need an ambulance. You may need hospital treatment but you would get yourself there rather than ringing 999
Areas are taking over 3000 calls a day - there aren't the ambulances to go which is why they say no to not life threatening emergencies
They're designed for people who need emergency treatment on the way to hospital so severe bleeding, heart attack, resuscitation, broken pelvis or back, severe difficulty breathing

YoungGirl 1. I think the paramedic telling you that is incredibly unprofessional for a start.

1. That's not what a 'frequent flyer' means.

I'm a frequent flyer because of the nature of my illness.

A time waster is a time waster.

Well, my fuckwit was plainly and indisputably a time waster - the paramedic should not have been forthcoming with the information, but he certainly had no reason to lie and looked genuinely really pissed off not just because it was a Friday night near Xmas and he was covered in blood

People should think of the consequences before dialing 999. With notable exceptions (who I would certainly not discourage from seeking appropriate help), most people who look as they don't need an ambulance probably don't actually need one. I don't know whether they call 999 because they are ill-educated, massively entitled or don't give a shit about people with a more urgent need. (In the case of the OP yesterday, for example, she simply seemed to have no idea that ambulances were only for life-threatening emergencies, although she accepted quickly that a hospital dash for a routine labour would not require one). Either way, whatever triage is being done by call handlers needs to get better.

I DO think there should be more serious consequences for inappropriate ambulance use. The limited resources available would be better able to cope if there were fewer nonsense calls for ACTUAL coughs, colds and other minor self limiting illness.

We triage heavily, on an international system that's constantly reviewed and recertify every 2 years. But if someone lies, then we can't do anything about that. Or if they have "difficulty breathing" but fail to mention it's because their nose is blocked...
A large amount of calls get passed to a further triage who can arrange GP appointments etc and give more advice

The problem is beyond a major accident with limbs hanging off and severe, evident trauma, a life threatening event can look rather benign. My dad had a major heart attack and was walking around saying he just had a cold and would only concede that it might be turning into a chest infection. He didn't want an ambulance, he only rang his GP for advice because his chest hurt as he was breathing. No crushing pain, he thought he just needed an urgent prescription for antibiotics. He nearly sent the ambulance away that his GP called. To someone without access to an ECG he probably didn't look ill enough for an ambulance.
He spent a few weeks in hospital and ending up with some major heart surgery. It hasn't fixed him, it was a major event and he is now in congestive heart failure. It's just bought him time. Time where he is as healthy as he can be. When it fails he will be beyond help.

My DS was a bit tight chested and coughing. After a couple of days I took him to the GP to get checked as he has asthma. He was talking to a friend he met in the waiting room and looked fine. 20 minutes later he was being carried out by paramedics after the doctor said his oxygen levels were poor and he was getting worse rather than better on a nebuliser. Not my idea to use an ambulance but the GP insisted on it. I guess it was a relief that he had medical care on the journey. We ended up being discharged from the assessment ward later that night as they got him stabilised and well enough to go home. It was scary and I don't want a repeat of it at all.

IStoleDipsysHat

My Dad had similar. He'd been kept awake most of the night with what he thought was his asthma. Finally fell to sleep. Woke up again still struggling and with massive palpitations. Took his inhalers which didnt work. Tried again. Still didnt work. He rang 999 in between gasping for breathe ans sais "I think I'm having an asthma attack".

Paramedic came, started attaching the wires and whatnot. Still telling the paramedics its his asthma. One look at the ECG & other numbers. "you're not mate. You're having a heart attack". And was blue lighted to hospital. Sorry to hear about your Dad being so poorly.

DrCoconut the GP will insist on it as its usually the safest mode of transport for a child or adult with breathing problems. Especially with low SATs. I have had times where I've been bollockef for not using an ambulance and going in a taxi instead. The staff would much rather you 'waste' an ambulance where they can monitor you and get oxygen and nebulisers' in you or your child for those 15-20minute journey to the hospital; rather than soldier on under your own steam with no access to oxygen and then creating an emergency situation for the staff once you reach the hospital.

Do you know what's really sad? My Dad had pneumonia and sepsis earlier this year. He'd already been to the GPs. They'd dismissed it as a virus and sent him on his merry chesty way. By the time he got rushed in after a customer rang 999 when he collapsed at work. He was in Resus and in respiratory failure. Once they'd stabilised him. They asked him why he hadn't rang before. "I didn't want to waste an ambulance" he replied.

A large amount of calls get passed to a further triage who can arrange GP appointments etc and give more advice

Is that when they get a paramedic to call you back? I had that once , a paramedic phoned me back after I dialled 999. Said as I was an auxiliary nurse trained in BLS etc I should be able to manage my mums seizures at home. 1 hour of fitting followed by 30 minutes of unconsciousness . Completley unresponsive .

That paramedic refused to send an ambulance at all - because my mum has seizures very , very regularly (ie about 5-10 a week) and they're not sure if its epilepsy or not ..

Nothing sorted until I rang NHS 24 and a senior nurse sorted a 999 call again.

I got a letter some weeks later apologising , saying he was suspended and would have further training.

Sometimes triage fails unfortunately :( , although probably does help a great deal when used appropriately.

Well that failed because it was inappropriate and he did the wrong thing. We have advanced paramedics and senior paramedics that have done more and more specialist training to triage. Also mental health nurses, and paramedics can also speak to the advanced paramedics for further advice when they're on scene
They can't not triage because the other option is send to everything and then you would be waiting forever for an ambulance

People are saying about fitting/breathing/chest pain - that's not wasting time at all
The people who ring for a sprained ankle 5 days ago, or ring 15 times a day are the ones that are taking up the time

YANBU, I work in ED and don't know whether to laugh or cry at the people that come in ambulances. Chest pain for five years (not worse tonight), splinter, sore foot for two weeks (can walk fine), sniffy nose, child ate a coin, vomited once, just tested positive on home preg test.

Ambulances here have to take you if you insist, plus people know they can just say the magic words "chest pain" etc and be taken in. As in "My foot has been a little sore for two weeks..... Umm and oh yeah just remembered I have chest pain, yeah that's right".

Oh and many people get the police to call one for them as they are getting arrested or on the way to court! Not sure why as it only delays the inevitable.

Not long ago I read a news article about people who lived near hospitals would leave the pub after a night out and call an ambulance to take them to the hospital. Then just leave and go home.

I hoped the story was fake or exaggerated but sadly I fear it's true.

by this time she could barely breath he drove her to the hospital where she had to wait a further hour to be seen by the nurse

I very much doubt she would have been left waiting to see a nurse over an hour if she could barely breathe. Breathing difficulties are triaged very quickly.

I've been shoved in all manner of rooms before whilst waiting for a doc to come review and or admit me. I have never waited over an hour for a nurse to triage me. Or my child for that matter.