To think some people waste the ambulance service time

[hannah1992]

So last night I drove my dd who's 19 months to the out of hours doctor which is located at our hospital. You have to wait at a&e reception and speak to reception etc. Anyway three ambulances came in and obviously they get first priority in booking people in. We had been waiting in line for 25 minutes while these ambulances were sorted and my dd was screaming the whole time (she has an ear infection). In the three ambulances was a man that was sent to the gp part so didn't even need a hospital doctor. Another had a teenage boy and his mum. He had a bandage around his hand/wrist BUT his dad had followed the ambulance in the car. He was walking around didn't seem to be in very much pain aibu in the fact that his dad had drove behind the ambulance, why couldn't he have just drove him in the car?

I was just stood there thinking the ambulance certainly in my area (not sure about others) are very stretched and people should stop calling ambulances when a) they can go to hospital in the car ie: it's not a life threatening emergency and let the ambulance service deal with people who are seriously ill. I just kept thinking while they have been dealing with someone who needed a gp rather than the hospital and someone who's parents could have drove him to hospital somebody could have been dying of a heart attack.

but you can often tell a darn sight more than the young computer script plebs sitting on the end of a phone!
I'll inform my degree educated ds that you think he's a pleb, you know, for getting off his arse and getting a job, any job after being made redundant. Oh, and then for passing the six week course he had to take before he could answer calls and for occasional override of pathways and life saving. I'm sure he'll think of something far more articulate to call you.

Maybe the first one was an ambulance taxi service that is provided for certain people who cant get to hospital appointments themselves and how do you know the second one hadnt picked mum and son up from an accident somewhere and dad had come from a different destination and met at the hospital? :/

You dont know what happened before or during that ambulance ride. My baby used to have seizures and we couldnt bring him round, had to call an ambulance many times and the paramedics treated him at home then had to take him into hospital via ambulance once he had come round and "looked" fine

You have no idea what was wrong with these people. That child with the bandaged wrist could have hurt his wrist whist having a fit or a diabetic episode, or even concussion and needed the emergency treatment the ambulance was able to give him. You cannot summise. I know a child who walked into and e, looking perfectly fine, but was actually close to coma and death due to being an undiagnosed diabetic. She had been to the go, who tested her bloods and then immediately called the ambo. The parent followed in the car.

DawnDonna, I'm sorry for the pleb comment, it was wrong of me to generalise like that, and I certainly didn't intend to. I was simply venting a lot of upset & frustration from the experiences I myself have had. Our daughter had an ambulance refused for a serious fracture, by a young chap who refused to deviate from his script, and when challenged on the fact that she was repeatedly fainting, it was obvious the algorithm had simply taken him to the decision that our daughter had a minor injury, and that was that. Unbelievably, we had just received an official apology from the Ambulance trust, in relation to another 111 call handler, refusing to allow me to discuss our daughter with a senior colleague, when he had deemed her not needing medical attention, in spite of the fact she has a genetic immune defect and is under GOSH! We again had to bundle her into a car at 4am and take her to the nearest hospital, where she spent a week on IV. The chap concerned was obviously quite young, had argued with me that if my child was very ill, she would not have been watching TV a few hours before, and when I explained that immune deficient kids don't always present the same way, he just kept on repeating his 'script'. Three times in a row, the 111 service has not only proved itself to be useless, but has caused me so much upset & frustration, I have no faith in the system at all.

Whilst I feel for you and your DD's experience to an extent, I have to agree with other Mn's and say that you can't tell just by looking at someone the whole story/extent of their injuries. It would be great if people rembered that A&E means ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY

What a nightmare mum - DH is a doctor and used to make jokes about the "NHS reDirect" system as he called it. Sounds like 111 is even worse.

mum, it takes courage to apologise publicly, thank you.
Ds has just said should it happen again, tell the call handler you want your call escalated as you don't match the system. Every office has a doctor on the staff, 24 hours a day, specifically to deal with the things a call handler is unsure of.

I called an ambulance a few weeks ago. Realised whilst they were checking me over that I'd overreacted and that it almost certainly wasn't as dire as I thought, but they insisted on taking me to A&E (and once there, keeping me overnight). I felt so embarrassed. And even more so now I know that there will have been people in A&E judging me.

Yes, you are being unreasonable. I've worked in A&E and have seen it from both sides. Regardless of what you saw, you will never know the full story. The lad with the bandages could have tried to commit suicude.

The other guy could have no form of transport and panicked about what was wrong with him, would you rather him phone for a taxi and die of a heart attack through panic while waiting for the car?

There have been times where I've called the NHS helpline for my children and have been advised to call an ambulance, even though we have a car.

From the other side of the fence, having worked in A&E, I can tell you it's not like ER and Grey's Anatomy. Everyone does not go rushing to the latest victim coming in via an ambulance at death's door.

Yeah, I know it's frustrating when you are sat there with a screaming child, and yes, some people will, and do, abuse the system, but at least we live in a country where a half decent system is in operation and the first thing on the hospital's mind is making you better, not worrying if you have enough insurance to cover the med bills.

Why did your child need to be seen out of hours? If not urgent that is very wasteful of you

And even more so now I know that there will have been people in A&E judging me.

Lostinaseaofbubbles. They can jog on. If the paramedics took you in then they clearly made the right decision of the hospital doctors deciced to keep you in overnight too!

Hope you're feeling better now.

but at least we live in a country where a half decent system is in operation and the first thing on the hospital's mind is making you better, not worrying if you have enough insurance to cover the med bills.

Amen to that.

Thank you DawnDonna, that's very kind of you. It was a thoughtless comment, and it would certainly have upset me too, and I am so sorry to anyone who might have been offended by it.
The apology I received from the ambulance trust, explained that it was a training issue, and that the handler should have redirected the call once it became apparent that her situation was more complex. They also apologised for the way in which the handler had argued with me, when I tried to explain my daughter's situation, and said they would review their training procedures.
Systems that rely on non-medically trained people, following scripted computerised pathways, are bound to have numerous constraints, and I do think there needs to be greater focus on improving the system that there currently is. As for all the wonderful, compassionate, hardworking call handlers out there, you most certainly have my upmost respect!

Call 111 and get them to book an out of hours appointment for you if they think you need it. Saves you waiting around. I did it last week and was in and out within 10 mins. Got some evil looks in the waiting room though but as I work full time and have a very painful infection, I needed to be seen quickly

I find all the complaints about drunk people being treated/put in ambulances quite odd. Obviously being dangerously drunk is a self-induced state, but once you're there you can't stop it. Very drunk people can and do choke to death on their own vomit. They also sometimes injure themselves very badly. Obviously it would be better if they'd never got so drunk, but surely it's obvious that if they need treatment they should get it? Triage is based on clinical need, not moral worth. If that drunk person has a more urgent clinical need than your ill child then they should be seen first regardless of whether that seems 'fair' to you.

Should you call an ambulance if someone has fainted? This happened the other day - I didn't think a 999 call was warranted as the person regained consciousness almost immediately but one was called anyway. What's the difference between fainting and collapsing?

What's the difference between fainting and collapsing?
I'm not a medical professional, but would assume a faint is a temporary issue with blood supply to the brain that will cause no further concern, and a collapse is a more serious condition where you quite possibly do not know the cause

Collapse (to us!) effectively means nothing - they could have keeled over after winning the lottery, fallen, been struck by lightning, legs given way....
Fainted is they've lost consciousness

Collapse (to us!) effectively means nothing
Which is the trouble - the ambulance service and the public speak different languages, which is why ambulances don't get the priority they should have for some cases, and get blue-lighted to non-emergencies.

It's not though. We then ask "tell me exactly what you mean by collapse?"
Then said caller will say "well he fell/his knees gave way/he tripped over the cat/passed out"

I once rang 111 because my son had tonsilitis it was the weekend and there are no walk ins he failed one of the questions so they said they were calling an ambulance I told them no he has tonsilitis she said if I refused the ambulance she would report me for serious neglect so the ambulance was called he had tonsilitis we had to go down to the out of hours (only 111 can get you an appointment there) to get antibiotics
we have a flying doctor down the road he was pissed off he hadn't been called and put in a complaint if he has meningitis a four hour wait for an ambulance would not help

IME an ambulance is only called if deemed necessary. Often a paramedic will be sent first and if they consider it important, an ambulance will be despatched. Without knowing what these people were ill with you really can't make a judgement.

There is always the possibility they were forced to use the ambulance when they didn't want to. I was in a car crash outside a hospital, maybe 400 metres or less from the A+E department. But they refused to let me walk to A+E, or bring out a wheelchair and wheel me in. They insisted on sending an ambulance and driving me in. I certainly wasn't top priority to see the doctors though (saturday night) ended up discharging myself and just seeing my gp 2 days later.