To think some people waste the ambulance service time

[hannah1992]

So last night I drove my dd who's 19 months to the out of hours doctor which is located at our hospital. You have to wait at a&e reception and speak to reception etc. Anyway three ambulances came in and obviously they get first priority in booking people in. We had been waiting in line for 25 minutes while these ambulances were sorted and my dd was screaming the whole time (she has an ear infection). In the three ambulances was a man that was sent to the gp part so didn't even need a hospital doctor. Another had a teenage boy and his mum. He had a bandage around his hand/wrist BUT his dad had followed the ambulance in the car. He was walking around didn't seem to be in very much pain aibu in the fact that his dad had drove behind the ambulance, why couldn't he have just drove him in the car?

I was just stood there thinking the ambulance certainly in my area (not sure about others) are very stretched and people should stop calling ambulances when a) they can go to hospital in the car ie: it's not a life threatening emergency and let the ambulance service deal with people who are seriously ill. I just kept thinking while they have been dealing with someone who needed a gp rather than the hospital and someone who's parents could have drove him to hospital somebody could have been dying of a heart attack.

Where I stay if u have transport or public transport (if its not life threatening) they wont send an ambulance. Ive only ever BN in ambulance twice once she I was in labour and had no way of getting to hospital as it was very late and once she my daughter had a fit. Ive got three kids aged 1year old 8 and 11. Ive BN to a n e a couple of times and made my own way there

I'm an ED nurse.
A few things:
You can't always tell what someone else's presenting complaint by looking at them. Some of the patients who may be seriously ill mighg look OK to a layperson. Also, mental health patients come via ED.
When NHS Direct was changed to 111 they started employing unqualified call handlers, who use flow charts with key terms even when common sense dictates that they're not relevant.

111 do send a lot of unnecessary ambos out but likewise good paramedics use their experience to leave a lot of patients at home once they've assessed them. And we don't find out about all the times 111 does give appropriate advice and stops unnecessary attendances.
Ambulances may be booked in first not necesarily because their patients are more poorly, but because they need to get back Ion the road and can't be expected to hang around waiting for people who have walked in with a twisted ankle.
Patients who arrive by ambulance don't automatically get prioritised for a cubicle, and they are still triage just the same, using the same criteria, so their length of wait is determined both by their condition and how busy the dept is.
If there's a long wait for triage, some walk in patients with certain complaints may get put to the front of the triage queue.

Once an ambulance is despatched to a baby under 2, their rules determine that the child can't bed left at home, even if they are fine. (they can be redirected to the GP though).

Cause typos, on my phone.

Aaargh, scuse typos!!

I agree jubi66, that is generally the case, but even some of the triage nurses we have encountered, have not always appreciated the full seriousness of our daughter's condition, and indeed even our own GP surgery has not recognised how ill she has been in the past!
She has been admitted about 30 times in 7 years, and while some have been smooth & wonderfully handled, others have been anything but. With immune issues, and many different infections ranging from pneumonias to kidneys, sometimes all at once, when she has any extended fever, it becomes a real worry. One occasion last year, I took her to the GP as she had developed high fever and a heart rate of 160+ on the back of a sinus infection that she'd just completed 2 courses of antibiotics for. I just 'knew' she was very ill...and I expressed my concern to her GP, she said quite categorically, she looks well to me, and probably just needs another short course. My daughter was crying that her head hurt over & over, and just couldn't sit upright for long, so I drove her straight to a&he. She was admitted right away, and discovered she had scepticaemia with an unusual bacteria!
I have developed a strong sense of intuition with my daughters health. We lost my little brother to sepsis when he was barely 1 year old, 20 minutes after a doctor had declared him to have nothing more than a cold...and suggesting to my Dad, that my mother perhaps needed a little nightcap, as she was overreacting. She found him unresponsive in his cot, and she truly never got over it. She was also a senior nurse, and also had that intuition, that her child was very ill, it is dreadful when that intuition is dismissed by anyone, let alone those that we put our trust in to help.

I totally agree - I called an ambulance for my father who was having a stroke - immediate assistance required. On arrival at A&E he went straight in, I had to wait in the waiting room whilst they gave him emergency treatment.
Whilst in the waiting room people came in by ambulance for things that I would never dream of calling an ambulance for - sprained ankle (mum confirmed it and again drove behind!) a suspected broken arm (adult) with another adult who again came later in a car.
Laziness and being entitled... I think the NHS should put up posters AN AMBULANCE COSTS £x FOR EACH CALL OUT - ONLY CALL IF AN EMERGENCY! They do jump the queue which is wrong - they should arrive and sit and wait if not an emergency (once triaged) behind the ones that get themselves there.

The other week when I ended up in an ambulance to A&E, the first person to arrive at my home was a first responder on a bicycle. When he confirmed it was serious enough they sent a paramedic in a car. When he decided it was serious enough they sent an ambulance.

If all those professionals have decided that an ambulance is what is required then who are you to decide that they should have been driven there by their family member?

When my friend was electrocuted and suffered massive internal burns should I have saved the ambulance the job by driving him myself if I was going to follow the ambulance anyway? That seems to be what you're saying... To any onlooker he would have been a guy who was a bit confused, smelt a bit odd and had a small external burn on one hand!

When I was taken to hospital in an ambulance with appendicitis as a teenager because the out of hours GP insisted upon it should my parents have refused and taken me themselves?

I work closely with our local A/E department and agree that there are certain situations when calling an ambulance is not appropriate. I have many colleagues, some who have become friends over the years, who work for the ambulance service. They have a very demanding job and in my opinion, compared to other emergency services, are under paid. However, that is a different issue altogether. Not all those who call for an ambulance are brought to A/E, some can be managed safely at the scene without needing hospital care.
Circumstances of how people are injured/unwell are all different, and why they may call upon the ambulance service.
You will not have been given any facts about the other patients you mention. How do you know that the father of the injured teenager followed the ambulance? The teenager could have injured himself in one location, the mother contacted the father who arrived at hospital from another location. There are all sorts of scenarios possible.
I have known relatives/friends turn up at the A/E before the ambulance with their injured/unwell relative/friend. It's not worth speculating on others situations, patients are treated using a triage system to establish priority.
Patients in police custody do not get priority, jenm87. That again is another issue, for the police forces! But, some patients with police in attendance are actually victims, not suspects.

Yes there are people who abuse the ambulance service...however YABU to judge people when you dont know the situation.

My daughter fell once, hit her head and started fitting. We called an ambulance, husband drove behind us in the car. We got to hospital and she perked up and looked like any other happy child playing with the toys, chatting, etc.... she looked fine,

So did I waste the ambulance's time by calling them? NO....because how was I to know she would be fine not long after.

To take it one step further... she also bumped her head another time, she didn't fit but started been sick a few hours later.

We took her to hospital, We had some sideways glances/comments in the waiting room as she threw up into a dish bowl... they soon shut up when we said she'd hit her head...and she was soon taken into a side room when the nurse found out she was been sick after hitting her head. they air lifted her to a bigger hospital for a ct scan... she was fine and discharged the day after.... But it was very annoying to see/hear the people saying we shouldn't bring to hospital when she was "been sick"

so yes....dont judge when you dont know the facts.

I've phoned 999 that many times for my mum (50 +) as she suffers prolonged generalised seizures (up to 15 at a time) . The call handlers , paramedics etc know me and Mum on first name basis (less so with call handlers). Its a nightmare of a situation but how do you change it? My mum weighs 13 stone , I can't lift her , I cant assess her at home safely and no rescue meds or anything .. I often worry about overuse.

Mind you I've also been admitted to hospital a good few times with 'just' period pain for morphine and observation... do look 'ill' though as by time of admission I'm usually projectile vomiting, fevered and bent double!

111 are terrible though - I go into regular urine retention, local hospital wont see me as complex to catheterise. Big hospital wont see me without a line down from 111. 111 said acute retention isnt an emergency as such and to have a warm shower .. thank God can now self cath and treat it myself.

111 gets a lot of bad press, but unfairly IMO.
A lot of that press was driven by GPs, because many of them lost a very lucrative side job providing services.

The course of action the 111 call handler gets isn't exactly "optional" - these are not trained clinicians, so they need to be pretty confident to overrule an action that the NHS protocol says to take.

Did you know that there's a "Frequent Flyer" aspect to 111? Not to be abused, but it might produce a different result
www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/commissioning/commissioning-topics/urgent-care/frequent-nhs-111-callers-will-be-given-priority-gp-appointments/20006979.article

My daughter is epileptic. If he seizure goes into the 5th min her care plan is to call and ambulance. Usually by the time we get to a&he she's running around like a normal toddler. YBVU as you have no idea what happened before they called that ambulance

I'm so glad the conflict over the "plebs" comment has been resolved so nicely as I was about to come in all guns blazing

On a serious note, today at work I listened to someone die, as I coached their devastated, terrified loved one through CPR. The next call I took, I got a mouthful of abuse from someone who thought their mild, ongoing pain warranted more than an assessment from a clinician.

I try to maintain the outlook that everybody who calls us, does so for a reason - even if that reason isn't always immediately apparent - and is deserving of 100% attention, professionalism and care to help us find that reason and help them as best as we can.

Once I literally wasted the ambulance service time and still feel ashamed of it. DD who was 14 months at that time suddenly started bleeding from nose. Being inexperienced in such situations I started panicking, especially after seeing all her mouth full of blood. Instead of calling an ambulance I just needed to position her correctly (which I didn't ) to be able to stop the bleeding. But hey, as first-time-parents we can be quite paranoic, can't we...

Sometimes an ambulance won't even be sent so I think yabu to think there was nothing wrong with these people. I once called 999 as i accidently put a large kitchen knife through my hand I was on my own with three children in the house one only being 3months and was told it wasn't an ambulance matter and to get a taxi.

Once I literally wasted the ambulance service time and still feel ashamed of it. DD who was 14 months at that time suddenly started bleeding from nose

This is what I find weird about this post and all threads like them. This thread has been full if 'Ooh! I feel really guilty' and 'Oh! I know the NHS is under pressure.'

Your baby started bleeding from the nose unexpectedly. FFS! Of course you were right to call an ambulance. Even if you had a car I'd think it was better to call an ambulance because I'd want someone medically qualified to treat your baby on the way.

I have no medical training, but I'd think sudden and unexpected bleeding in an infant needs to be investigated. I'd be over the moon to be told at A&E that I was over reacting and could go home.

I recently had bloods done at GP surgery, was at the back end of pneumonia but still having few issues, had a missed call on my phone at 9 and voicemail left from a doctor at the local hospital telling me I must ring urgently as my blood results are worrying. That if I haven't called him back in the next ten mins an ambulance will be sent. Terrified I rang back and was told to get to a and e right now as I could have a blood clot on my lungs.. fucking terrified I was. Was told that if I absolutely should not drive. My Dh drove me but if he was away it would have been an ambulance and I'd have looked totally healthy and normal when going in, I was even laughing with dh.

i know I'll have been judged,there was another young woman there with a police escort also looking healthy with no visible injuries and several people who thought themselves more worthy made no secret of mouthing off about "prisoners". She wasn't even a prison or but a young vulnerable woman with mental health problems who needed supervising and because of cuts to services she uses, couldn't be referred to the service she'd usually have, or have the usual specialised professional to supervise. Had people just been a little bit kinder they'd have found out she had been sitting there waiting way longer than themselves and wasn't pushing in. They did the same judging about a man who was Ina wheelchair and appeared to be drunk and covered in shit, didn't enter their heads he could have had a fit.

It's frustrating and worrying when waiting in A and E, I get that, I was fed up waiting until early hours, and I don't doubt that there's time wasters, but hearing people waiting think they knew better about total strangers medical needs who should and shouldn't be allowed treatment was uncomfortable to be around. It's down to the medical professionals to decide who should be there and identify timewasters. As loads of people have given examples of, and just because a surface burn isn't life threatening to many of us, it may well could be for others with underlying conditions. Which don't always show up on a receptionists screen either.

The hospital in the OP sounds like they give an awful lot of private medical info if people in the waiting room are able to hear so much info too.

Where I live (different country) if you call an ambulance - they will take you to hospital but you will get charged if they deem it not to be an emergency (i.e. you could have got there under your own steam). If they deem it was an emergency (or necessary) then it is free. This seems like a good system to me.

Well I'm one of the people who don't call an ambulance when they should. I got a bollocking a few weeks ago for not calling one (from my GP). People being judgmental about those who call ambulances don't make me feel better about doing so.

The young man may have
Had a medical condition that impedes healing or leaves him open to infection.
Be suicidal/a self Harmer and it wasn't an accident.
Burned himself and lost feeling somewhere (which needs to be checked out asap)
He could've become unconscious and regained consciousness in the ambulance etc etc.
you're not a medical professional, if even the best doctors wouldn't attempt diagnosis from a snapshot across the room who do you think you are to do it?
Paramedics make their own decisions with professional knowledge, experience and qualifications to hand, so for whatever reason those people needed an ambulance.

YANBU! two friends are paramedics and they always get called to the most mundane things

(i.e. you could have got there under your own steam).

Doesn't sound that good to me. When my SATs are low. I can still get there under my own steam. It's just the Resus Doctors prefer me not too as Ambulances carry oxygen. Taxis and Buses don't.

OP. In your reference to the dad following behind the ambulance. That will be because there is usually only two people allowed in the back of the ambulance. One being a relative, the other being a paramedic who clearly deems it necessary that the patient needs monitoring during the journey. Which is why they take them in the ambulance and don't tell them to come behind them in the car.

Ex claimed he was practically dying on sofa and kept pestering 111 to send an ambulance as he "couldn't breathe" but could spare enough breathe to tell me to call them (He is v big - height and weight so no way I way going to move him). They turn up (two ladies turn up) one of whom sussed out he was fine. He then asked yo be left alone with the younger and prettier one!! (Not kidding either but he has form with cheating!). He definitely misused service. Second time DC and I were involved in a serious crash which required two ambulances (and could have been three but I said I would share). Was already embarrassed at amount of police and ambulances in attendance. Am incredibly grateful to all the emergency services - they looked after my DC and me wonderfully that day.

My paramedic friend got a call to a person with "obstructed breathing" so they went with blues and twos expecting a typical high category call. It was a twenty year old with nasal congestion (i.e. a cold). Their next call was to a man who had fallen into some machinery at work. It took them longer to get there than it would had they not been telling twatface to get himself to Boots and buy some fucking Vicks.

Yes not all serious illness or injury is obvious BUT there are also clearly a fucktonne of people who abuse the service. I think a charge is appropriate for misuse and that it should be a fixed percentage of people's income as with the new speeding fine.