To be so distraught about breastfeeding

[lloveroftobleone]

That I just don't know what to do? I am completely at my wits end and worried about the state of my mental health to be honest. I have desperately wanted to breastfeed ds as I stopped with dd after 5 days when she lost too much weight and I panicked and switched to formula. I was heart broken at the time and feel it played a big part in post natal anxiety due to the guilt of feeling like I had not giving her the best start I could.

Ds is 6 weeks and ebf. I feed him ALL THE TIME but was feeling so happy to be breastfeeding and really loving the closeness and our bond. However he has still fallen two centiles from 50th to the 9th and only gained 5 ounces in 12 days. I have had lots of support and he was diagnosed with a posterior tongue tie.

We saw a private lactation consultant yesterday who advised his tie is unlikely to benefit from a snip and when she observed me feeding she felt improved technique and position would solve the issue.

Basically, he had a shallow latch and just fed from the nipple and was really struggling to feed efficiently. Lots of rapid sucks, not much swallowing. I hate that he has to work so hard.

The consultant got me to feed with a nappy under my boob, and self latching and it was amazing, he had a huge wide mouth for the first time and did long deep sucks and swallows. It felt so lovely and I left feeling mega positive.

However, since I got home I can't replicate it. He has gone back to the shallow latch. I have spent all day and night trying to get him to replicate that brilliant feed but failing. I called the consultant who just advised to keep practicing.

Yesterday evening I got pretty hysterical. Its all just too hard and I am so worried about his weight. If it was just a case of putting in the hours and feeling tired I could do it but I feel like I am starving my baby. The consultant advised he will find feeding challenging due to his tie and without being able to get that good deep latch, which we have tried everything to achieve over the last 6 weeks with loads of advice, he won't gain weight.

I don't feel like a failure necessarily, it's more a feeling of grief for the experience I have had glimpses of, the feeling of closeness and that I am able to provide him with everything he needs. I am torn between carrying on but feel the time and energy needed to just keep him at an acceptable weight gain is not sustainable requiring hours of pumping to build my supply. I am already feeling neglectful of my beautiful daughter and husband who is mega supportive. But the thought of giving up just feels wrong as well.

I swore when I was pregnant that I wouldn't do this to myself again and would give it a good go but not get hung up if things didnt work out. Yet here I am again, just so distraught at what is the best thing for Ds and my family.

I am honestly normally a really positive, laid back person which is also why the anxiety after my daughter and how I am coping now is such a shock. Any advice or shared experience would be amazing right now.

OK only other thing to say is huge pile of cushions. Sit on your sofa and put a pile of cushions or pillows on your lap. Plop the boob you want to feed from on the pillow (you shouldn't have to lean forward for this mor than a little bit) and then lay your baby on the cushionsin front of you, head lined up with nipple. Gently roll the baby towards you, arm along their back with elbow behind their head and you can then use your free hand to guide anything that needs guiding.... nipple, back of baby's head... Somehow by not having to deal with the weight of the baby you can more easily tweek positioning, hold off allowing latching until there is a wide mouth etc. Plus when you get latch you are all super comfy. Just make sure you have the remote control / your phone / water all there before you start!!

Yanbu to feel as you do op. It's very easy to say or even think yourself: get through this, don't guilt yourself, if this were someone else id say X etc.

In reality though for a lot of women we know it logical but can't feel it emotionally. I combi feed and felt like a failure when bf failed and was so hard. I consulted everyone I could, by the end even they were saying to combi feed. I had his tt snipped which markedly improved things and kept at it. At around 4 months ds suddenly started feeding more effectively and opening his mouth wide. Talking to others about it and at the clinic there are quite a few women finding the same thing. Whether it's them being bigger or something I'm not sure but it may be the same in your son's case.

I'd get a second opinion on the tt and then talk to someone about it. There's some good breastfeeding and combi feeding Facebook sites if you search for that. Lots of advice there too on latching. Don't be afraid to combi feed if it helps you and/or your mental health. It could affect supply but may not. Bf at night is best to keep supply up and you could pump too if you wanted too.

I used to stroke my baby's cheek to encourage a wide yawn mouth before latching.

Also, it's worth getting the tongue tie snipped whatever the outcome. My baby didn't even wake up while having it done! You really are doing an amazing job. If you continue to feel very down then you must prioritise that and do whatever you need too to feel better. You are important too, much more important than baby getting breast milk over formula.

Third thing. Good luck and ask more about the tongue tie... my first had hers snipped at 6 weeks and it didn't interrupt BFing and wasn't done due to BFing ability... the consultant I was sent to (from the Portland) said it was worth doing now as they don't notice it and it prevents any speech development problems when they are older and would notice it being done. Seek more info on it as it isn't all about BFing... HTH. Good luck.

With dd2 I'd hold my boob (right boob, right hand) with my fingers underneath and thumb on top. As I bought dd's head towards the boob I'd use either my first or index finger to pull down her chin. It really helped. You are amazing. You have got to 6 weeks despite a posterior tongue tie. You might choose to supplement, mix feed or switch if you can't improve his latch. It won't matter. Just enjoy your baby. I had the same experience in terms of failing with my first. With dd2 I did it but introduced formula at 3.5 months after hearing dd tell her daddy she didn't feel like she had a mummy any more we switched over completely to ff at 5 months. I have no regrets, not like the first time.

You literally have said everything I felt when I had my son. I was absolutely heartbroken that it was so hard and that he wasn't gaining weight. In the end I introduced a bottle in the evening which took the pressure off and I think helped get his weight up. We carried on BF and it did get much easier.

Now I regret putting so much pressure on myself and to be honest I'm not sure I'll carry on if I find it so hard next time. In reality though I'll probably be exactly like you and be beating myself up over it again.

Please, please be kind to yourself. Just think, what advice would you have given yourself 6 months ago? Exactly.

Tried so hard with firstborn but he had a tongue tie and was a bit of a lazy beggar. As soon as I stuck a bottle in his mouth he gulped away though. 6 months of guilt at being unable to feed him followed. Child no 2 probably would have eventually gotten the hang of it but no1 kept sticking his head in the way. What you doing mummy? etc and it was a bit more challenging when you can't devote all your time and attention to getting it right. I figured no1 didn't suffer for being on formula so why would no2. I have 2 beautiful kids aged 3 and 7 that don't have any issues because they weren't breastfed for a significant period.

I think someone said this already but I would recommend considering nipple shields.

I use them with DS and they work so well. All the stress of struggling to get him on the breast at the right moment was ridiculous!

On a population level the benefits of breastfeeding are well documented. On a individual level do what is best for your mental and physical health and all your well being as a family. I'm so sorry you are struggling. It is something I am very familiar with.

It's a great start to have seen a consultant and know that your baby can have a better latch and swallow. However, one session with a consultant is not enough to correct a latch, once or twice a week two / three weeks to help you and baby practice the technique would be the best. There is so much information to take in during a session that it would be impossible to take it all in and successfully recreate it at home after just one meeting!

There are lots and lots of breastfeeding support groups that will be able to make recommendations for lactation consultants/ specialists who will be able to help you practice perfecting your babies latch. What about joining a breastfeeding group that meet up once a week - there will be lots of mums at different stages who will be able to help give you support & observe your latch and make suggestions to help you.

I had almost exactly the same experience with my dc2 ... Posterior tongue tie , not gaining weight, awful damage to my nipples... It was v tough... My advice would be to mix feed. I did this and it worked really well. I felt so sad about the thought of stopping completely but formula gave my nipples a much needed break! And probably saved my sanity. I continued mixed feeding until DD was 6 months. Breastfeeding didn't really get much easier , dd's latch remained quite shallow , though I tried lots of different things to improve it. But I was happy that I could continue with it for longer than I expected to. It doesn't have to be all or nothing! Well done for persevering ... Do what feels right for you.

You're doing so well. I had the exact same issue and was in tears most days as my baby lost weight. I was given mixed advice about having his tongue tie snipped but went for it - it was done at 5 weeks, he didn't cry and fed straight away. The difference it made to his latch and length of feeds was immediately apparent. I had to express to keep my supply going during the 3 week referral but it was worth it to be able to get back to ebf after the procedure, and I continued to feed him until 16 months.

Just to reassure you, my experience of the tt cut. The whole thing took about 15 seconds, which includes the LC positioning her etc, my dd then cried for a whole 10 seconds while the LC passed her to me and she immediately latched on and fed. She then looked slightly miffed all day, and was fine the next day.

It's no worse really than their vaccinations/heelprick if it's done well.

i hope that helps

Haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to say your post really resonated with me as I went through much the same with DS1!

He had a posterior tongue tie, causing tons of feeding issues - thrush, mastitis, extremely sore nipples and worst of all weight gain issues, despite having what looked like the perfect latch!
TT was diagnosed and snipped at 3 weeks old but by then my milk supply was already an issue (tried fenugreek capsules etc), and he obviously didn't know how to feed efficiently so despite feeding 12 hours a day he STILL didn't gain weight like he should. In fact he dropped from 25th centile to the bottom of the chart and below the lowest centile line.

At that point (6 weeks old) I agreed to give him one bottle of formula at night, and remember how I felt absolutely devastated at "failing" him at the time! I don't think anyone I talked to understood, but when you're really passionate about breastfeeding it can feel heartbreaking.
GP said I would probably stop BFing soon since baby was getting his nutrition from the formula.

However I kept breastfeeding and pumping milk every time baby had a bottle so built up a big store of breast milk in the freezer. After a few months I started giving him the expressed breastmilk instead of formula and at around 6-7 months (starting solids) I dropped bottles altogether. His weight gain has been steady ever since and we continued to breastfeed until he self-weaned at 23 months!

So I think it is worth trying to have his TT snipped (such a quick procedure), but if baby's weight gain doesn't improve then combi-feeding is a good option! He will still get your antibodies and if you wish you can still go back to breastfeeding exclusively at a later stage. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Your responses have really helped to carry me through yesterday. I am so happy I posted and braved the mumsnet vipers nest!

Ds is being weighed this morning for the first time in a week. I still can't recreate the latch and I just feel so aware of how very little milk he is getting from the crappy shallow latch and just how hard he is having to work, the frustration is making me dread feeding him. I don't feel like I am enjoying it any more.

I am going to wait and see how I feel after the weigh but think that if his gain is still poor after feeding him round the clock, is breastfeeding really still the best option for him, particularly given the impact on my mental health and family time?

Yes, I could carry on working on the latch and look at the plan b option to try snipping the tie but not sure this is the best thing for him anymore and I will just have to come to terms with it.

Thank you all again for all of your wise words and being so wonderful in your support. It has helped immeasurably to know there are so many other women who understand how this feels.

I'm in a similar position. My DS is now 9wks old and dropped from 11th centile at birth to 2nd, then 1st and then 0.4th centile for weight. He's due to be weighed again today. He had a full tongue tie when born and the snip didn't make any difference to his feeding at the time so I had to use nipple shields to get him to latch at all, never mind latch well. I think over time it's made feeding easier for him though...
I'm currently trialling formula top ups after each feed to try to increase weight gain. I'm not hopeful as most of the time I can't get any in him and at most 1oz.
I just tell myself that as long as he's gaining weight with plenty of wet and soiled nappies I shouldn't worry. I think if his weight plateaus or he loses weight I'll swap to formula completely but otherwise I'll persevere.

It does sound like visiting your nhs bf clinic may be a good idea to practice the improved latch. It's annoying how the LO's seem to 'perform' infront of bf consultants etc but then when you go home they just won't replicate it! Mines done the same and it is frustrating. Try latching on both breasts at the bf clinic and don't be afraid to take LO on and off while there so you can practice several times and hopefully you'll get the hang of it. I know my NHS Trust does bf clinics daily at different locations so I could go each day if necessary. Are you able to do the same where you live?

I do wish you luck and try not to beat yourself up if you switch to formula. You aren't alone in this.

I wish you would try tongue tie division before giving up breastfeeding completely
As I said before I really don't see why division was Plan B, can't see any harm in trying it, and the potential benefits are big. It could solve your problems completely. It might not of course but surely it's worth a try?

I'm very confused as to why you won't consider a TT division too. A TT can (and I stress "can" not "always") have an impact on oral health and development as well as feeding. There's not enough focus on that due to division mostly being the preserve of midwives who don't have the sane experience and training as dentists/ENT in respect of the wider issues

I think you've been terribly badly advised, sadly

Re: advice, for the avoidance of doubt, indont mean on here - in real life

So sorry to hear you are having a rubbish time of it at the moment
I struggled with bf and my son wasn't gaining weight too well. It was suggested to me to try combination feeding - breast and formula. I tried it and it was great - still had the closeness of bf but also using formula helped him gain the weight he needed. He seemed really content as did I. I did that for 4 and a half months. It was lovely and a good happy medium as I really did not want to give up bf.
But just know whatever you decide, you are not a failure. You are a brilliant mum who is doing the best for her child xx

I would get the tt op too. I have a tt and as it didn't impact (much) on feeding, my mum was advised to leave it. I can't roll my R's at all which in Scotland is a bit of a problem. Was told it was most likely due to tt.

Hi Op, I'm a peer supporter. I'm sorry to hear how hard you are finding things but you are doing incredibly well and you will get there. I second the advice to go back and see if the snip will make a difference, definitely see the LC again.

Re a deeper latch, consider the laid back or biological nurturing position. You are sat up but then lean yourself quite far back. Pop baby on your tummy vertically with his head on your boob. He will instinctively look for the breast and tip his head back. You can help by putting the palm of your hand at the top of your breast and putting your nipple into place. Ensure his chin is lined up under the nipple and as he tips back he will be able to open his mouth wide and really get a good mouthful of breast. His weight is supported by your body and your arm alongside him.

My apologies if you have already tried this, you will be able to Google images and videos online as I know it's never as clear written down!

Stay strong xx

My two boys had tt separations by an ENT surgeon and I can honestly say it was no more traumatic than injections/ear piercing. It made a difference in their ability to feed.

I really feel for you, because I was at the end of my tether with my ds. He had a front and posterior tongue tie that made it so so painful to feed that I had to stop and bottle feed a mix of breastmilk and formula until we could get him properly assessed 5 days later.
I felt like the worst mother in the world. He had his tongue snipped and fed wonderfully for the first time at the clinic. He had a high palette aswell which was contributing to the pain. For a week or so afterwards it just seemed like we were going backwards and it was painful again. It got to the point again that I'd dread feeding him.
We went to a clinic where there was a tongue tie specialist and she gave us the best advice. She advised me to kind of slump down in a chair, put my baby in the centre of my chest and he just wriggled to the side and self latched. It wasn't a technically perfect latch in the sense of what it was 'supposed' to look like but he did it himself and I think I was really obsessing about getting the perfect latch. It took a while for him to learn what to do but as he learnt to use his tongue properly and his palette settled down, he got a deeper and deeper latch.
At times it felt like I couldn't carry on and this is just my individual experience but I'm so glad I persevered. My ds is 20 weeks today and currently feeding beautifully as we speak Hehe!
I'd go back to the tongue tie clinic because it made such a difference. But do whatever you feel is right for you x

I have to say IIloveroftoble I like many others have commented very positively about your efforts to get your DS to breastfeed. You have given him the important part of the breast milk that helps his immunity, most definitely, so give yourself a pat on the back for that.

Have you tried the NCT at all? I rang them myself in desperation as I was going through the same thing you are struggling with. However, they told me that it wasn't a necessity at all and it wasn't expected that I should join up to become a member, as I thought and that they were there whenever I needed them to give any free advice regarding babies/toddlers.

So, I went along with it and, lo and behold, i eventually got it. I would say it's much easier to replicate the position using my own pillows, v pillow and cushions!

However, once she left and baby wanted feeding again, I got quite cross with myself and started to have the same thoughts as you, Iloveroftobleone.

Anyway, this time the young lady who was so nice previously, came round, The one who was kind, patient, sympathetic and obviously trained but had breastfed too, so had empathy with me, appeared at my doorstep. I'd previously envisaged some sort of bossy, finger wagging, very long hair under her arms and down her legs, sandal wearing person and she couldn't have been described anywhere near what I had 😂. Not that I deride women like that. Each to their own. It's just in my experience they have a certain aroma...

It seems perfectly common for women to not get the hang of it first time around. Anyway, before we got down to business, she told my husband that it was his duty and absolutely imperative to make sure that I drank lots of fluid, including water, tea (but not near bedtime) and just not too much alcohol. Great; that gave him something so do other than standing there like a lemon!😉

We went through it again and she picked up on the bits I'd missed/forgotten because I was so extremely tired. She was incredibly patient. She/NCT didn't expect a penny off me either which was useful as we were skint for reasons I won't go into. It was just great to have someone to help me out and give me advice whenever I encountered a problem.

I believe the NHS runs class' too. I'm not sure if you have to pay; I presume not. However, my personal choice would be to have someone at my home, giving me advice and using my pillows. That way I knew I could replicate her more easily.

This time around time I got it! I actually wanted to do cartwheels up and down the lounge and probably would have done if I wasn't in so much pain!

Also hubby was happier because he now knew how to help me, so he had a sense of purpose too. DH didn't feel left out.

I knew my health visitor wasn't much good; she'd had twins and went back to work asap as she hated being at home with them, so her breastfeeding knowledge was out of a book. She was too patronising too and I loathed the weighing bit. Anyway that soon wasn't an issue as baby and I had cracked it.

One tip; put cream on your nipples and look after them.

Good luck. And if it doesn't work, remember you've tried your best. Nothing bad will happen if you switch to f/f. Especially if it's making you feel down and exhausted. Look after yourself too. I found that the advice to get me water etc helped. It's meant that hubby is now quite happy to be told how to help me, even if doesn't sound like it. It makes him feel involved and helpful too, as men can feel pushed out. (no pun intended😳).