To be so distraught about breastfeeding

[lloveroftobleone]

That I just don't know what to do? I am completely at my wits end and worried about the state of my mental health to be honest. I have desperately wanted to breastfeed ds as I stopped with dd after 5 days when she lost too much weight and I panicked and switched to formula. I was heart broken at the time and feel it played a big part in post natal anxiety due to the guilt of feeling like I had not giving her the best start I could.

Ds is 6 weeks and ebf. I feed him ALL THE TIME but was feeling so happy to be breastfeeding and really loving the closeness and our bond. However he has still fallen two centiles from 50th to the 9th and only gained 5 ounces in 12 days. I have had lots of support and he was diagnosed with a posterior tongue tie.

We saw a private lactation consultant yesterday who advised his tie is unlikely to benefit from a snip and when she observed me feeding she felt improved technique and position would solve the issue.

Basically, he had a shallow latch and just fed from the nipple and was really struggling to feed efficiently. Lots of rapid sucks, not much swallowing. I hate that he has to work so hard.

The consultant got me to feed with a nappy under my boob, and self latching and it was amazing, he had a huge wide mouth for the first time and did long deep sucks and swallows. It felt so lovely and I left feeling mega positive.

However, since I got home I can't replicate it. He has gone back to the shallow latch. I have spent all day and night trying to get him to replicate that brilliant feed but failing. I called the consultant who just advised to keep practicing.

Yesterday evening I got pretty hysterical. Its all just too hard and I am so worried about his weight. If it was just a case of putting in the hours and feeling tired I could do it but I feel like I am starving my baby. The consultant advised he will find feeding challenging due to his tie and without being able to get that good deep latch, which we have tried everything to achieve over the last 6 weeks with loads of advice, he won't gain weight.

I don't feel like a failure necessarily, it's more a feeling of grief for the experience I have had glimpses of, the feeling of closeness and that I am able to provide him with everything he needs. I am torn between carrying on but feel the time and energy needed to just keep him at an acceptable weight gain is not sustainable requiring hours of pumping to build my supply. I am already feeling neglectful of my beautiful daughter and husband who is mega supportive. But the thought of giving up just feels wrong as well.

I swore when I was pregnant that I wouldn't do this to myself again and would give it a good go but not get hung up if things didnt work out. Yet here I am again, just so distraught at what is the best thing for Ds and my family.

I am honestly normally a really positive, laid back person which is also why the anxiety after my daughter and how I am coping now is such a shock. Any advice or shared experience would be amazing right now.

Op. There is nothing in the world wrong with bottle feeding, there is everything in the world wrong with putting you and your family through this kind of angst when the benefits at best are under dispute.

Switch to s bottle. Don't feel guilty. Everyone will benefit. Your son will be well fed, your daughter get attention, your husband can feed him to.

Stop beating yourself up and start to enjoy him.

I second the suggestion to try nipple shields. I don't have any experience of tongue tie, but had latch issues when my DD was born, and they really helped. When it was time to wean her off, I whipped them off mid feed and she was usually able to latch onto my breast, slightly deeper each week. After a few months, and lots of practice, we stopped using them. She's 8 months now and still ebf. Good luck op.

My DD is EBF and sits between the 2nd and 9th centiles. She's not starving, she's just small (she's 7 months now so not strictly EBF now as she's eating too). There was a point where she dropped down the centiles, but she's my third and I don't get her weighed frequently now as it was making me anxious so I took a step back and listened to my instincts. My instincts were that she was absolutely fine, just small and perfect! She's just petite and I know she's wasn't ever starving or left hungry.

I don't have any advice on the tongue tie (my son had one and it was snipped but I've no idea what sort. He was still never a great feeder.) but you sound so distressed. I appreciate how much you want to do this. Can you see the consultant again today?

I also have experience of babies with posterior tongue tie, and dividing the tongue tie didn't solve the latching issues. In both cases I ended up exclusively pumping their feeds. If you are considering this then please take heart that it's possible to do it (1st DC was fed to 13 months and with DC2 we're 10 months in and counting). I would say that a double pump is essential to do it long term: first time around my HV arranged for me to borrow a hospital grade one for a couple of months which was a big help so do ask for help. Good luck and best wishes!

Is your consultant a trained TT practitioner? Most are on the Assoc if TT practitioner websites.

My husband is a a dentist and trained TT practitioner. He did the training as we had terrible experiences with breast feeding due to our 3 and 4 year olds being tongue tied and the advice and assistance we got from untrained professionals (who didn't advise they were untrained)was very poor. I ended up exclusively expressing for both of them for nearly a year. Our 1 year old was also tongue tied but DH treated that at 10 days and she breast fed for a year

Tongue ties can affect oral health and development (which was also a reason that DH trained as, from a dental perspective, he finds them interesting).

I would have an assessment from a trained TT practitioner (if this consultant isn't) and then make an informed decision about what to do.

Just a practical suggestion OP - have you tried nipple shields? It was the only way DS could breastfeed successfully (prem, tongue tie, shallow latch). But they are a hassle so as you did get there with the lactation consultant, if I were you I'd spend more time with them working on latch.

I really feel for you. Breastfeeding is basically the most awful thing at the start and then at some point something clicks and it works and it's amazing. I really hope you get to get to the amazing bit.
I found I fed all the time with a tongue tied and lip tied baby. We never had it cut because weight gain was good but I don't think the latch was ever brilliant. The thing is though every day I learnt more about him and my own body and we got through some how. I learnt for instance that the the only way of latching on one side was to latch him as I stood up, like the pressure of me standing up would propel him on. Lying down feeding takes some practice but is great when you get there.

I would caution against a bottle - if you do always pace feed - because if the baby struggles on the breast anyway they could easily prefer the bottle.

Can the LC come round to your house privately?

I ended up exclusively expressing for DD when she couldn't latch.

She dropped from the 91st centile to the 9th though and then slowly made her way back up and is now around 75th for both height and weight (she's 6 now). Just wanted to reassure you that weightloss doesn't equal catastrophe.

Firstly stop beating yourself up! Secondly, try to see the lactating consultant again for more advice. You've got a beautiful family with two happy healthy children - feeding your baby is of course important and you're doing it, you've been a success, and you've done it so far by yourself with problems which do happen but that's ok, get a bit more help and advice, have you tried expressing and bottle feeding breast milk?
Well done for everything - just get a little more help and stop being negative about your achievements

There are a lot of fb groups with excellent advice - I don't know if you are allowed to PM me for the names of them or if that is against site rules?

The only practical advice I can give is to try nipple shields, second opinion on tt snip and try to get another appointment with lactation consultant if possible.

I know exactly how you feel op. My son wouldn't latch for any more than a couple of seconds at a time, his face was sore from his delivery. We had one really good feed and I cried with joy. Other than that I pumped exclusively for almost 12 weeks. I was beyond exhausted and when he began to be awake more often during the day I just couldn't sustain it. Giving it up and giving him formula felt almost like a deep grief and I still don't know if I'm 100% over it. I put so much pressure on myself to bf.

My ds is just about to turn one and is the happiest, healthiest little boy I've ever met. Formula has done him no harm at all.

If you need permission to stop then give yourself it and know that you've done a wonderful thing for 6 weeks. Pat yourself on the back mama.

You've done so well to EBF. Just to add, my DD is 6 weeks old and has never been near my boobs. It definitely doesn't affect closeness/bonding.

I don't BF but I have done my research and pumping to increase your supply isn't as effective as the baby is. So if you don't express a lot don't think you have a low supply!

Whatever you do, however you feed your baby is fine :)

Further, I should say that DH does a lot of second opinion work and has found often that a lot of posterior tongue ties are either not properly diagnosed or fully divided initially. Please make sure any TT practitioner you use is genuinely confident dealing with them. He works with an ENT colleague who is also a practitioner and it's not unusual

Anecdotally, our 3 year old still has a whacking great undiagnosed and untreated posterior TT that will need dealt with. I repeatedly said post "division" that I was sure there was still a restriction. DH could see there was a restriction and that was pre-training. We were totally fobbed off and I am pretty unhappy that DD will need this sorted out under GA in the hospital due to still dribbling etc when eating liquids and drinking at age 3.

If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out.

I know it's easy to say but you are putting yourself through a lot of stress, and for what?

You have BF for 6 weeks which is a hell of a lot longer than most last for whatever reason.

Get a second opinion, try BF support groups, see your HV, give yourself a time limit, and if you are still feeling this way by that point move on to plan b. Either formula or expressed milk in a bottle.

Bottle feeding is in no way less close or less lovely. My baby always cuddles up close for a bottle and dozes off in my arms when finished.

You also have another child to think about this time, you simply cannot put 100% of your time and energy into breastfeeding, it's not sustainable.

You can still have a lovely bond whichever way you feed, and ultimately if you have been told your babies weight is dropping to a concerning level then they need feeding one way or another.

Feel no guilt if it doesn't work, you will know you did everything you could.

Yes please don't worry about your bond. People have often commented on how close my son & me are. I've felt strongly bonded with him since hearing his first cry after delivery, the bond has only grown stronger over time.

Oh thank you all, it's so good to know I'm not alone and other people understand. I have had really good support from health visitor, breastfeeding group and hospital feeding clinic. They referred me to the lactation consultant who is also a tongue tie specialist. She did say to give it a week, see how we go with the new latch and his weight and she would try to snip as a plan B.

She felt the latch technique alone should sort things and I agree really as if it worked, even on that one occasion, it's got to be possible. Would hate to put him through the procedure for nothing.

I can see her again but won't be able to get an appointment for another fortnight and last night I just felt I couldn't last that long. I have a video but just can't see the difference, think it's something really subtle I'm doing differently now.

I have an NHS support worker coming on weds so will call and ask if she can squeeze me in today. If ds's weight has chunked on, I could be feeling completely different tonight. It's such a bloody emotional rollercoaster.

I have tried nipple Shields without success unfortunately. Also tried expressing and have the medela swing pump. Never get more than half an ounce at a time and REALLY struggle to squeeze in time to do it between feeds. Just about managing to eat and shower at the moment.

The idea of combination feeding does appeal alot. I could keep the closeness of breastfeeding, especially at night, also the convenience of feeding when out of the house but know he is getting the calories from formula too. Think I'd have to pump while dh gives the bottle to keep up supply.

Ring a breastfeeding helpline, look for support groups, there is help and support if you look for it and they will be there for you! Clearly a good latch can be achieved so you will get there, your LO can do it it's a question of getting used to it, for both of you... And as LO gets bigger it will get easier for him to achieve a good latch too so it is worth persevering! It took me about 3months to 'crack' bf with my first one and it was hell but it was worth it! Hope it works out for you!! Do ring the bf support lines etc!

Why is TT division only plan B? I just don't get it! I don't think there are any downsides, certainly none that outweigh the potential benefits.

Saw your update! Good to know you have some support! Keep at it! If you can keep exclusively bf, combination feeding can also lead to the early end of your breastfeeding journey and can be very tiring to do properly (due to having to pump to keep supply up etc)...

I often differ with people on MN about this but I have to say that if your baby is not gaining weight then breast is not best. You are his mum and your role is to feed him. It does not matter whether that milk comes from a bottle or a breast- your role remains the same.

Honestly OP, you have tried your best here. Please don't beat yourself up over swapping to bottles. Prioritise that which matters, which is feeding your baby and watching him grow. The strain on your mental health is I'm sure doing nothing to help. Look after yourself and look after him.

Mix feeding is a great option but it's good to make sure your supply is established first as baby is best at building that. It is very hard to maintain with a pump and you're so tired in the beginning that if you get a chance to sleep in the beginning it will be hard to wake yourself up and pump.

Asking them to squeeze you in is a good idea!

Aw I feel for you OP. DS had a v high palate too with a 90% thick posterior tongue tie, not diagnosed until we moved area when he was 7 weeks old. Lactation consultant missed TT and everything. Dropped centiles, 4 weeks until discharged from postnatal clinic, 15g weight gain in a week etc, pretty similar to your story.
The lady who eventually diagnosed his tongue tie could tell just by looking at his face that he had a tongue tie - muscles in jaw and up by temple really built up because of all the effort he put into sucking.
I know this isn't necessarily helpful info, but you're not alone! We combo fed from the beginning basically otherwise he'd have starved, switched to formula completely by 4 months but he hadn't really been getting any nutrients from me for ages. It's sad but then he packed on the pounds. I still find looking at pics of his newborn days hard because he was so skinny.
OP! Just sympathies, I never know what to advise on feeding threads because it's so personal.

Oh and Oblada- I combination fed my bigger than average baby with no impact at all on breast feeding. In fact, my second child was amazingly fit and well and gained weight like a star. My first child who I ebf became jaundiced and had a pretty traumatic start (for her and me).

Hope you manage to get it sorted and that you can see a BF peer supporter between now and your second appointment with the consultant. I recommend pumping while feeding - you'll get so much more out than without baby on. Be careful that combination feeding doesn't affect your supply. Well done on feeding your baby for 6 weeks so far!

PS did get TT snipped as soon as diagnosed, 8 weeks old then, but by that point my supply was shot.