To be so distraught about breastfeeding

[lloveroftobleone]

That I just don't know what to do? I am completely at my wits end and worried about the state of my mental health to be honest. I have desperately wanted to breastfeed ds as I stopped with dd after 5 days when she lost too much weight and I panicked and switched to formula. I was heart broken at the time and feel it played a big part in post natal anxiety due to the guilt of feeling like I had not giving her the best start I could.

Ds is 6 weeks and ebf. I feed him ALL THE TIME but was feeling so happy to be breastfeeding and really loving the closeness and our bond. However he has still fallen two centiles from 50th to the 9th and only gained 5 ounces in 12 days. I have had lots of support and he was diagnosed with a posterior tongue tie.

We saw a private lactation consultant yesterday who advised his tie is unlikely to benefit from a snip and when she observed me feeding she felt improved technique and position would solve the issue.

Basically, he had a shallow latch and just fed from the nipple and was really struggling to feed efficiently. Lots of rapid sucks, not much swallowing. I hate that he has to work so hard.

The consultant got me to feed with a nappy under my boob, and self latching and it was amazing, he had a huge wide mouth for the first time and did long deep sucks and swallows. It felt so lovely and I left feeling mega positive.

However, since I got home I can't replicate it. He has gone back to the shallow latch. I have spent all day and night trying to get him to replicate that brilliant feed but failing. I called the consultant who just advised to keep practicing.

Yesterday evening I got pretty hysterical. Its all just too hard and I am so worried about his weight. If it was just a case of putting in the hours and feeling tired I could do it but I feel like I am starving my baby. The consultant advised he will find feeding challenging due to his tie and without being able to get that good deep latch, which we have tried everything to achieve over the last 6 weeks with loads of advice, he won't gain weight.

I don't feel like a failure necessarily, it's more a feeling of grief for the experience I have had glimpses of, the feeling of closeness and that I am able to provide him with everything he needs. I am torn between carrying on but feel the time and energy needed to just keep him at an acceptable weight gain is not sustainable requiring hours of pumping to build my supply. I am already feeling neglectful of my beautiful daughter and husband who is mega supportive. But the thought of giving up just feels wrong as well.

I swore when I was pregnant that I wouldn't do this to myself again and would give it a good go but not get hung up if things didnt work out. Yet here I am again, just so distraught at what is the best thing for Ds and my family.

I am honestly normally a really positive, laid back person which is also why the anxiety after my daughter and how I am coping now is such a shock. Any advice or shared experience would be amazing right now.

[oblada]

Flower - of course it can work for some but what if it doesn't for her and her supply drop? A difficult climb back up so best explore other options to keep exclusive bf first... Just my thoughts! (Jaundice is actually pretty normal for the first 3months for an ebf baby but medical staff are quick to worry mothers unnecessarily... That's a different story tho :))

[Ippydippyskyblue]

Oh, loveroftobleone, I really feel for you. My daughter was a difficult baby to breastfeed and I persisted, had PND probably as a result of persisting to feed and being very overtired. I do wonder if I should just have switched to a bottle, but we were so hard up financially I felt I had to feed her.

It is quite a knack getting baby into position, like the recovery position leaning towards you. I found that with my son that worked. Don't let baby latch latch on at all until they have their mouths completely open like a great big yawn. Remember baby's learning too! Don't reward them even if you have had the let down telex. The baby will move their heads around, widening their mouths. Once they're a full o shape reward them with your mipple. The baby will. Just takes them practise too. Wait until they do. They'll automatically open their mouths wider if they can't find a nipple. Maybe distract yourself a little once full latched to make you relax: your drop down reflex will be more effective. Maybe with a glass of wine too. Just one glass is ok and unlikely to cause anything negative or untoward except for them to sleep a bit better due to having the hind milk too. Then once LO is sleeping, you sleep too, whatever time of day it is. When you're not tired, you produce milk more effectively. Be strict with yourself re the sleeping while baby sleeps.

Remember too that baby obviously isn't starving. B/F babies significantly gain less weight than bottle fed babies. Mine did. Now they're as strapping and as healthy as their peers.

Make a visit to your doctors to discuss possible PND today. You always feel better when you're in controls, I've found. It's very common, more so than actually realised I think. One in four adults is suffering mental health issues at any one time and no one is immune to it. Maybe this is your turn! Don't feel ashamed or that you're a failure. You've produced a wonderful and healthy baby. Bottle feeding doesn't make one a failure. Baby has had the most important part of your milk already at the beginning. Many don't even get that, but survive perfectly normally. By the time they're at Reception at Primary school it's impossible to judge which baby's were B/F or bottle fed.

I managed a lot better with my son, admittedly, but he's actually the one who's had multiple very serious allergy problems. My daughters fine! How ironic is that? Doctors assume he wasn't B/F because of his problems, but I very quickly put them right. Just a stupid assumption from stupid doctors🙄.

Another thing I must mention is that your local NCT will have a local breast feeding counsellor. They've not only done it but also had extensive training too. They really helped me and I felt comfortable with another woman, tbh. It's free too! Definitely worth a shot.

So, today, book an appointment with your GP then secondly google for your local NCT branch. Give them a ring/email and take it from there. You'll feel better once you've done that because you will have taken back control.

You can always PM me if you need to, no problem at all. Take care O/P.

[luckylucky24]

Good luck op, you have had some great advice and there is nothing new I can add but I totally get why you want to carry on. The bond is amazing but don't let your MH suffer. If you need to top up with formula after a feed then do it. Even if just for peace of mind whilst you get sorted. I found bosom buddies a great support.

[NoSleepSinceSpring]

Definitely get a second opinion on the TT if you want to continue breastfeeding. DS's TT was missed by a breastfeeding specialist at the hospital at about 4 weeks. He was finally diagnosed at 9 weeks by another breastfeeding nurse at an NHS feeding clinic. It was snipped at a hospital and the ENT consultant said it was a significant tie. It changed breastfeeding for us almost instantly.

[StarHeartDiamond]

I did mixed feeding with all 3 for ages, worked very well. Maybe try that as best of both worlds? Even if your ds doesn't get much from bf you can still have the bond.

[Itsjustaphase2016]

I've bf all 3 of mine for at least a year and IME the shallow latch issue resolved as they grew, and as their mouths got bigger and stronger. The first 3 weeks mine all had an awful shallow latch with horrid bloody nipples etc

[rogueantimatter]

I found expressing by hand much more effective than using a pump. The pump hardly seemed to do anything.

I really feel for you - it's horrendous at this stage.

Just a thought which might not be practical - could you have a skype consultation with a bf consultant in the next day or two?

[silkpyjamasallday]

You've done amazingly well to get to 6 weeks OP, please don't beat yourself up over it if you do decide to switch to formula. I would echo the advice you've already had to try nipple shields and I would have his tongue tie checked again. My DD had a poor latch, but tongue tie was missed by all the professionals that checked her, she broke it herself with a spoon at 6 months when we started weaning and feeding became a million times easier after that. And her feeds were obviously more efficient as we went from feeds lasting 40 minutes plus to 15 minutes on average when I wasn't feeding her to sleep.

[Rabel17]

lloveroftobleone I was in a similar situation but am 7 months on. I was only getting up to 25 ml per expression for the first months (sometimes as low as 5ml) and it slowly started to increase. I expressed at every feed. I'm now getting 850ml per day but still having to top up with formula. No idea whether it is harder than" normal" breast feeding but the amount coming off does increase. If your partner can do some of the feeds it does mean that a cycle that can take 1.5 h is shorter and you can do other things!

[StarHeartDiamond]

Also I'm absolutely sure it's been covered by the many experts but baby needs to have nipple right at the top of mouth, with more breast tissue at the bottom, taking up more or most of the space available. I used a rolled up muslin to push my breast up and put to make this easier (have large norks!) and also positioned baby on top of a cushion on my knee to make them closer to breast, with another cushion under my elbow to support my arm. A bit of a faff at first to arrange but once baby learns the right position (and gets bigger) it doesn't need all the arranging it did at the start. Was just useful for getting used to the position first.

[Helbelle75]

Our dd lost a lot of weight in the first few days as she was born by emcs and I didn't realise my milk wouldn't come in as quickly.
We have mix fed since she was 3 days old and never had a problem. We reduced the top ups as she started to put on weight (i agree that all this weighing and centilefollowing makes mind very anxious).
She's now 14 weeks and we've dropped all top ups apart from 3oz at bedtime, and that is basically so dh can be involved and so she doesn't forget how to take a bottle.
I found my local breast start group to be fab as well.
I hope you find something that works for you.

[Flowersinyourhair]

Oblada- if her supply drops then it drops. In this situation just continuing to bfeed is really no solution at all. The baby is clearly not getting enough milk to grow and gain weight. I would suggest that the implications of a switch to ff are considerably less dramatic than continuing to ebf a child who is not gaining weight because of the nice feeling it gives.
Re my daughter's jaundice, yes I agree it is a pretty common outcome for ebf babies (largely because the baby has to wait for the milk to arrive). However, when you're a first time mum it is a pretty harrowing experience with lots of blood tests for the baby, time under a lamp with a sometimes distressed baby and an extended stay in hospital. Please don't dismiss it as a non-event.

[GhoulWithADragonTattoo]

As an adult with a tongue tie I wish mine had been snipped as a baby. I had my DS's done at 2 weeks old. I can't see the benefit of not snipping a tie when there are breast feeding problems. It's got to be worth a try. No benefit in retaining the tongue tie. Get a second opinion.

[Mouikey]

Very similar story to yours OP... babies TT seen in hospital but because she apparently had a good latch they didn't want to do anything about it. Got home continued to EBF and her weight dropped and dropped. She also has a high pallet and had a TT that caused a heart shaped tongue.

We eventually went to a local NCT breast feeding group and the lactation consultant was beyond excellent, said the TT was severe and having it snipped would make a difference. You can get a nhs referral via your GP or health visitor (we did the later but it was painful and she had no clue - even told us that at 6 weeks she would have to have a general anaesthetic!!!). Anyway we were referred, but I also spoke to the consultants secretary who was very helpful. In the end we paid for him to come and do it privately at home (horrid but quick). It made a massive difference and I am pleased we did it - her tongue is now free so her eating and speech will develop well too.

I can highly recommend Southampton hospital if you are anywhere near there as they have excellent staff and are apparently a regional centre of excellence for TT.

As ana side it didn't fix all our problems as it transpires I have low calorie milk and baby has silent reflux. We have combination fed since about 6/7 weeks (just 2 bottles a day) this really stabilised her weight which really worked for us. I obviously felt guilty but getting her fed was my priority. At a year she is bmvery happy and healthy and still has boob and bottle!

Try not to beat yourself up OP you are doing an excellent job.

[oblada]

Flower - my view is just to try and support ebf first and move to combination only if it's rly not working - here OP is having a tough time yes but if she can persevere (and that's up to her to decide what her threshold is, everyone is different) then it may well be worth it. It seems that baby is fine (ie medical professionals aren't concerned, dropping percentile is not an issue per say, need to look at bigger picture) and can achieve a great latch, it's just about achieving this more regularly. Combination feeding can work but my suggestion would be to make it a last resort that's all, simply because of the risks to the bf relationship. No point rushing into it at this stage (imo).
As for the jaundice and your child - I merely pointed out that for 3 months an ebf baby can be jaundiced (my understanding on this is that the reasons are unclear and not because of the first 3 days but you could be right) and be absolutely fine but medical professionals unfortunately sometimes get too involved and worry mum. This is not to say this happened to your case and nor am I dismissing what happened to you as a non-event...I wouldn't be in a position to do that and would not want to do that either. Sorry you had a tough time with your first one.

[crazyhorses3]

i can so remember the frustration and pain of breastfeeding. I never got it right but with my first he was starving all the time, and no matter what i did it didn't seem to work. i gave up at 6 weeks and switched to a bottle, he slept through the night from that point on. I was absolutely heartbroken and still regret it. With the other two I persevered but it always hurt and I had raw nipples most of the time.
I would suggest you get an NCT breastfeeding support person to come out and see you. They are trained in breastfeeding techniques and are very supportive. If you have a look and see where your nearest NCT is, phone them for advice. They are brilliant.
Don't feel like a failure, you are doing the best you can, and I'm sure you'll find a solution with support. We feel like breastfeeding should be something that's easy and natural but for some people it is a struggle, so don't beat yourself up. You sound like such a loving mother.

[TailEndCharlie]

Two words. Combined feeding. Why oh why are we still so hung up on EBF? And if that doesn't work you have to totally switch? Do an 11pm bottlefeed (or better still get your OH to do - amazing bonding time and you get a big stretch of uninterrupted sleep having gone to bed at 9...) and keep going with the BFing. The extra from the one bottle should halt or reduce the weight dropoff and you get to continue BFing without worrying that he is going to lose too much weight. I was advised to combined feed with my first as she was 11lbs at birth and CS breech so my milk didn't come in forever and she then had an appetite I couldn't keep up with. With my second I EBF till 7 weeks and then introduced an 11pm bottle to stop weight drop and get more sleep (happy mummy, happy baby and also my DH wasn't bonding aswell with the second rather spending his energies lavishing attention on the eldest who was feeling a bit abandoned). Just because you introduce a bottle feed sometime during the day doesn't mean you have to give up BFing... it just may take the pressure off.

[TestingTestingWonTooFree]

Mouikey how do you know about the calorie count of your milk? Has it been tested? I suspect mine is the same but I'm mixed feeding so I feel baby has aptimil meals and BM snacks.

OP I found the ordinary midwives and the peer supporters I saw one not much help in getting a good latch. It was only the specialist lactation consultant who could really explain how to do it properly. When the baby was on properly I tried to take photos to help me replicate it at home. In your shoes I think I'd add in a bottle or two and express at the same time to take the pressure off a bit. Definitely try and get some specialist help. My lactation consultant was insistent that only the Avendt nipple shields were any good. I'm not sure I really agree, but I suppose she knows better than me.

[Welshrainbow]

Maybe a bit out there for you but could you express after a feed and at the next feed use a SNS like this so he is still getting extra milk till he latches a bit better.

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[stellacat123]

Currently in similar situation however I've been getting wonderful support from hospital lactation midwife. Things have generally been improving slowly but yesterday morning everything seemed to have gone back to square one and I cried all morning. DH phoned the hospital and spoke to midwife and they told us to go in. She then sat with us for 90minutes and we tweaked lots of little things about our technique and position. We still need to keep practicing but it gave me a massive boost mentally. Your health visitor should be able to support you and/or be able to get some more lactation support from the midwives. Don't worry about repeatedly asking for help, it's what they are there for. Take care of and be kind to yourself - have a shower and walk around the garden/block, I've found this gives me a wee boost. Xx

[LittleCharmer]

Out of interest, how much does it cost to see a private lactation consultant?

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

ilove - please check the Association of Tongue Tie Practitioners website. There are a huge number of alleged "specialists" who are self defined. The vast majority of properly trained specialists are members of the ATP. If not, ask what university she carried out the training at - there are only two currently in the U.K. accredited

The exception is if you see ENT/max fac or s dentak surgeon (although my DH still did the training as he really wanted to be a member of the ATP as they are a fantastic resource)

Frankly, he is fed up of seeing very distressed parents who actually have had their mental health adversely affected by being told by alleged "experts" that their baby either is not tongue tied or that a division will not help.

[NameChange30]

There are NHS lactation consultants but it's obviously quicker and easier to see a private one. There is an excellent LC near me who charges £75 in her clinic or £100 for a home visit.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

Oh - and DH is very happy to work with lactation consultants/breast feeding counsellors and IBCLCs. He gets a lot of work through word of mouth from infant feeding co-ordinators. There is a lot of fantastic help and support in the community. That said, parents should be able to make an informed decision as to what to do after receiving a diagnosis from a trained professional.

[HSMMaCM]

My DD always tried to latch on with a shallow latch. I had to hold her off until she opened her mouth wide and then quickly latch her on. It did take a bit of practice.

Good luck and definitely ask more questions about the pros and cons of snipping.