To just say fuck it. Its this meal or starve?

[NapQueen]

Dd is a picky eater. Not down to just one meal or anything, and she eats a variety of fruit and veg etc. But if she had it her way she would eat:

*cereal/toast for breakfast
*ham sandwich with yoghurt and cucmber sticks for lunch
*plain pasta and sausages for dinner, with maybe cauliflower or carrots
*cereal for supper

She is more a "knows what she likes and wont try new stuff" kind of eater. She is five. Has been eating jacket pots with butter since starting Reception class.

We also have ds (nearly 3) who eats anything.

Now we are into the summer hols we will be providing all meals (usually school bfast club and lunch, childminder does her dinner, we do supper).

I dont have the patience to negotiate which elements of her meal she will or wont eat. Similarly I dont want to restrict ds down to dds faves or make separate dishes.

So tonight I did the "this is it. Eat it or starve. I wont be serving supper if you dont eat a reasonable amount of dinner as clearly you must be full"

Can I cure her?!?!

Ha! Threads like this make me laugh. I am neurotypical and trust me, I would (and did!) have refused food meal after meal if it wasn't something I ate. I am a stubborn cow though.

I can't really remember what I ate as a child, but it really wasn't much. I can remember disliking pizza, oven chips, potato waffles, all the food you might think a picky kid would like.

I can remember having dried pasta (as opposed to spaghetti hoops) for the first time when I was old enough to cook it, so probably age 13/14. Ditto peas. I ate them for the first time when I was 19 I think.

I now eat anything. I have my likes and dislikes like everyone does but if it's served to me at someone else's house I will eat it. My only hates are aubergine that's not cooked well and blue cheese, though I'll tolerate them.

I'd do what a PP said and make sure each meal has bits she can eat and then don't worry about it. The worst thing for me was people commenting all the bloody time "oh just try one, try a bit, it won't kill you". Well I knew it wouldn't but I still didn't want to try it!!!

I am guilty of pandering to my now 14 year old ds - he has been fussy since a toddler and when I used to try to put my foot down, has on a couple of occasions thrown up or retched and would never ever eat something he couldn't or didn't want to try - he would definitely rather starve. He eats chicken/ham/eggs/sausages/roast meats/potatoes/toast (now with butter on but that took years) and a lot of chocolate if he can. I was always of the opinion to say "eat it or starve" and tried a lot when he was younger but the upset it caused him wasn't worth it for me. He's added bits on since and I just hope he'll improve with age, but won't touch vegetables at all

Napqueen - the options your DD chooses are not a bad choice. How would she feel about the addition of cheese? You could start with cheese on the pasta and then cauliflower/broccoli cheese/ Sausages can be served with yorkies and then introduced as toad in the hole. Personally I wouldn't worry about it too much if its just the holidays and weekends - I'd be more concerned longer term but kids tend to eat more of what their friends are having in a group environment.
Armi - I still don't know why you have taken that attitude. Unnecessarily unpleasant to whom? I think you have a chip on your shoulder.

What happened tonight?

Did she eat it?

My DS was one of the small group of children who would go hungry rather than eat food he didn't want, or rather wasn't able to, eat. He is not neurotypical though.

My DD is picky, she also doesn't eat very much. If dinner is something new she HAS to try it, if she genuinely doesn't like it then she is allowed something different (like cereal). Generally she tries it, enjoys it, and eats it, albeit with a lot of reminders and encouragement.

My grandma was a Catholic with 10 kids. When I used to stay there I got woken up a six am to eat bacon and egg (so we could go to 7a.m mass) a huge dish of scouse at lunch time and a roast dinner at six pm. She wasn't the sort of woman you said no to. She was 4' 10" and you didn't mess her about.

Presumably supper is because she eats dinner very early at the childminder?

I don't really see the issue tbh. She survives having her lunch and dinner at school and CM on a menu not dictated by her, of course you can carry that on at home. I agree with PPs, serve her favourites once a week or so and keep some elements going, such as the yoghurts. I wouldn't threaten to withdraw supper if she doesn't eat, just feign indifference to what she does or doesn't eat.

However the bowl of cereal later on is the perfect reason for her not to bother with her dinner much. You could try moving dinner to later and dispensing with supper, unless there's a particular reason it needs to stay.

Both my son and daughter were extremely fussy eaters. We discovered some information which helped tremendously by suggesting that parents should add a very small amount (perhaps a teaspoon full) of a different food to their child's plate and encourage them to eat it. Don't worry if they don't do so at first, just keep trying with the same food in small quantities. We found it easier to start with different veggies, but obviously how you do it is up to you. We were advised to try this with the same food up to seven times whereupon your child will have found out if they like it or not.

Certainly it transformed my children's eating - and in a relatively short space of time. In fact, I remember my son saying that he hadn't realised what he had been missing food-wise.

Good luck.

It depends on the child, for alot of children that will work. For some it won't, when my DD was a preschooler she was happy to starve and at one point they were threatening to take her into hospital and tube feed her. There was nothing wrong with her, as far as she was concerned she could take it or leave it.

We had to give in and she lived on cake, chocolate and yogurt for months. Doctor said he didn't care what she had to eat as long as she started putting on weight and we could sort out the menu later. It worked but it took years before she really would eat a totally normal diet.

We've always catered to their likes. As an adult, I don't cook meals for myself I don't like so believe they deserve the same. They got less fussy as they got older.

A child who has sensory issues around food might very well starve themselves rather than eat a food that's "wrong".

I agree with pp's who suggest making sure each meal has bits that she'll eat.
I was a picky eater as a child, and people trying to push me into eating foods I didn't want just made me more resistant to trying them.

I was seen as an incredibly fussy child. Amusingly my diet preferences haven't changed much and I am not seen as a fussy adult. This is because I never liked fish fingers, waffles, spaghetti hoops, jelly. Kid food of the 90s. I'd have eaten all the greek yoghurt, quinoa and houmous you'd have chucked at me. I have never been able to eat red meat, it's always made me want to vomit. As an adult this is seen as healthy and responsible, as a child this was seen as unreasonably picky.

Anyway, my point being that various grandparents, teachers etc. tried "if you don't eat it there won't be anything else". It failed remarkably- I simply said "OK then".

Because by eight I was well aware that no one could force me to eat, and that adults were likely to get so freaked out by a couple of days of me not eating that I'd get to eat something I liked eventually. My grandfather once tried the "serve congealed dinner (that I'd explicitly asked not to be cooked, because it was beef and it would make me sick) for breakfast" trick. I stared him down as I slid it into the dog's mouth.

The idea that a neurotypical child won't starve themself is pish, except in the case of actual life-preservation. Yes eventually anyone will eat anything, but most humans can go a few days with minimal calorie intake and water fairly comfortably.

Don't make mealtimes a battle - that's where food issues come from.

My ds has started to refuse his morning porridge, he'll take a couple of spoonfuls then that's it.....My attitude is, like it or not but this is the next thing you are eating ..I just put it away then heat it it when he's hungry...works for me

I would also allow her to have a couple of food that she really doesn't like that you acknowledge as things she doesn't like. So for example, I know ds1 doesn't like most veg but he particularly hates broccoli so on nights that we are having broccoli I let him have peas (this is no extra effort as he likes to have them separately, often as a starter, when they are still frozen, rather than cooked. Yes, cooked would be better but choose your battles and all that - this way he is eating veg without complaining and it's not any extra work!) but it means he needs to suffer eating other veg that get dealt out on other days because he knows that he will have to eat broccoli if he says there is something else he hates more...

Likewise, ds2 suddenly started to hate to eat ham and so he usually gets a slice of cheese instead. Both of them might whinge and be a bit slow at eating some other stuff that they are not keen on (and occasionally if they are trying something new they might be allowed to eat half and then get a bit of cheese or some peas or whatever to fill them up, so they get used to eating it and don't associate it with too much of a battle).

But, by flicking the psychology around, and rather than making it about the foods they like (and limit it to just those foods) by making it about avoiding the foods that they dislike the most (especially if you have a simple replacement strategy so it's not affecting you and creating extra work for you!) it still gives them some feelings of control over what they eat but it isn't anywhere near as restrictive as focusing on just the foods they like to eat.

Also - I remember being little and having to eat foods that I loathed - steak and kidney pie or liver and onions were particularly vile and I still hate them and avoid them to this day. It's ok to not like a few things and treat them as special circumstances. It's not so good to think that you can only eat things that you really really like and avoid everything else. There are things I eat that I'm not that keen on because i know they are good for me, or they need eating up or a friend has cooked it and invited me over to eat or it's the best of the options on a limited menu or whatever the reason is - but I eat them to be healthy or polite (which extends to several things I wouldn't cook or choose for myself but never offal!) or thrifty etc - I try not to limit myself to only eating my favourites.

Hope that makes sense!

Perhaps the cereal supper is what allows her to fuss that much anyway. She knows there is a sweet, beige meal coming later.

caoraich I agree with everything you say except that eventually anyone will eat anything. My daughter really was looking like a child in a famine area, we had followed all the advice and she was being weighed every week and we got to the point where it was she needs to be in hospital being tube fed. The alternative was to let her live on chocolate and put some weight on. I truly believe if we hadn't given in and hospital hadn't followed through with tube feeding she would have starved herself to death.

My dad was pretty fussy when she was little. She ate lots of different fruit and veg, and meat, etc. but liked her food very plain and separate - e.g. Having plain pasta with the sauce on the side. I just kept giving her new things to try but never forcing her to eat, and now at 11 she pretty much eats anything - unless it really doesn't taste nice, so school dinners are out!!

What's the difference between supper and dinner here?!

Dd, not dad!!!!

I have many an unhappy memory of sitting in the head teachers office in the 80s with my dinner crying because I refused to eat it. Thankfully the advice my mum was given by health professionals to cope with my food issues and limited repertoire of food was to not make an issue of it. Now there are few foods I will not eat. My daughter had similar issues to me, as did my nieces. I would never try to make someone eat something they didn't want to. Encouragement to try new things is great but perhaps some people can't understand how stressful food can be. Not having a choice can definitely be damaging.

I was brought up with eat what you're given softened if you ate the majority on your plate and tried the new thing. I did the same with my DS and doing the same with my DsD (who never had that style of upbringing) I do not tolerate fussy eating and my DS and DSD eat what they are given end of. If they try it and genuinely don't like it fine at least they have tried, normally the 'new thing' will only be a small portion of a meal they enjoy anyway. the only exceptions are allergies and religious beliefs. now they eat far more variety and balanced meals. Might get flamed for it, bu my food waste is minimal and my are children healthy with a good attitude to new food.

I have 2 DC - one who used to eat everything except tuna (till she decided to be vegetarian..but she's a good balanced vegetarian)
And one who is and always was a little nightmare and would physically gag at the sight of food he didn't want. He is getting a bit better now but still very limited foodwise.

Myself - I have a Mum who wasn't the best cook . More apathy than inability. I was made to sit and eat burned mince while she shouted " Pretend its chocolate" and "Its a penny a crumb"

My answer to Eat or Don't was "Don't".
Which gave me a terric sense of control over everything and resulted in anorexia taking me to under 6st 7lb at 19yo.

Can you do it but always offer something simple with it as a side dish or pudding you know she likes? E.g. some bread, fruit, yoghurt? And it's just up to her what she eats if it. I think that's totally fine.

kim supper round our way is cereal/porridge/fruit and yoghurt/toast etc served close to bedtime. Dinner is the meal served at around 5. For the kids anyways. She has dinner with the CM as we get home at 6pm and bed is 7pm (she and ds are dropping by then) so we spend that hour playing or reading; baths; supper;bedtime story. Dh and I eat once the dc are in bed.

I served up dinner today and she picked a bit. It had one thing she likes, one thing she says she doesnt (peas) and one thung she changes her mind about.

I explained the no supper and she still remained insistant that she was not hungry. So shes gone to bed on probablt four forkfulls of food.

FWIW I don't disagree with PPs who say some children will starve themselves, have sensory issues etc.

However OP's DD seems to be surviving on school dinners and CM teas plus 2 bowls of cereal a day, and eats a variety of fruit and veg. It really isn't the same situation as a child who will live on air for days rather than eat anything other than pasta. With the mix of things she'll eat and new stuff as PPs have suggested, and a bit of keeping things simple and separate if she prefers that, i think she'll be fine. I don't think OP's DD will be damaged by her parent treating her similarly to how she is treated all the time at school and CM. Unless the CM gives her sausage and pasta every day, which I doubt.