to be v concerned about this - DD and boyfriend

[tactum]

DD Y9 (nearly 15 but always quite young for her age) has just got her first boyfriend. He's been in her class and friends with her since y7 and they seem happy and within a large group of secure friendships.

He came over on his own for the first time last week - big school catchment area, rural, so meet ups are very arranged and involve parents dropping off etc. I have been having chats with her about boundaries etc and very specifically stated I wanted all doors to remain open so I could bob in and out. He was here for 4 hours and said about 3 words to me. They spent their time in the lounge watching tv and a couple of times the door was shut. I made an excuse to go in both times and opened it.

After he left I told her I wasn't happy about that and we'd agreed it in advance. I said if agreements weren't respected in future it would be a problem. She maintained nothing happened and she hasn't even kissed him properly yet. I was also a bit peed off that they hadn't popped into the kitchen for a drink so I could have a bit of a chat but hey ho.

Can I just say I have never snooped on her at all, but this morning emptied her blazer pockets to wash it and came across a scribbled note between her and her friend in a class and didn't stop myself from reading it. DD said that BF had expected her to touch his dick when he came round and her friend had told her to go for it - that was said in a jokey way so I don't know how to take that. I am pretty shocked to be honest. I may be being completely naive.

I am also pissed off that this kid thinks he can come round to my house, make no attempt to be polite really and then ask my daughter to do that in my house.

I may be coming across as naive and victorian, but I'm all new to this and floundering. I don't know how to handle this - I know I probably shouldn't have read the note, but now I have how do I handle this? I feel she is way too naive to be thinking about this and am now also set against him and don't know how to get over that if he is going to be a fixture.

Please be a bit gentle with me as I'm all at sea. But I really don't know how to handle this! Is this just completely normal and AIBU for having an issue with it? Surely not?

When I was 17 I went out with a boy the same age and his parents wouldn't even let us go to his bedroom - even with the door open!

We lived in a bungalow so more difficult to get privacy, he was allowed in my room but only with the door open (it could pushed to, but not closed properly).

I'm very glad my ds (who's about the same age as your dd, 15 in the autumn) is young for his age and we hopefully won't have any of this to come until he's 16+ and his girlfriends likewise.

As for the note - I am very surprised that kids are writing notes to each other like this, though they were all using social media these days. To get back to the point, I was asked to have sex with someone when I was 13 (by a 15 year old) and was disgusted by the idea of it - so yes, it's normal for boys to make inappropriate suggestions. As others have said, it's all in how a girl reacts, and how she looks after herself. Lots of good advice above.

user - As a parent I would do my best to discourage this friendship, (no lifts, no invitations to the house) This sounds like a great way to push the DD further into her BF's arms! She needs her friends around her for when this relationship eventually goes tits up - isolating her from her friends because of their legitimate and age appropriate curiosity is a terrible idea.

tactum I know it's hard, but you labelling her as a 'young for her age' nearly 15 year old misses the point that she IS growing up, she will be having feelings and whilst we all like to pretend its the naughty boys leading our DDs astray, there will come a time when she does want to experiment a bit, for her own sake, not because she's being pushed into it.

It sounds like you played it well, given it's the first time he's been round - you've set out rules, made them adhere to them when they over stepped the mark and you've had a talk with her. Having them under your roof is the best thing for your peace of mind, so make it a welcoming prospect for them both.

Yes I would be okay with a 14 year old being asked to touch a boy's dick, as long as she was able to say no. And no, touching a dick is not the same as a hand job.
But sounds as if she said no.

My parents were like this and I grew up in the countryside. I went for lots of long "walks". As a teenage girl I had sexual feelings too. But I did not have sex under age and I was ready. But most explore before they reach that stage.

I'm surprised at all the posters who think it's 'OK' and 'normal' for teenage boys just to grunt at people, ignore their girlfriend's mother, and generally be antisocial because all they can think about is sex (and because 'middle-aged woman are invisible to them'. What's that teaching them about sexual equality, politeness and respect?)
I don't think it's ok but I do think it is normal. I don't think they're only thinking about sex but i do think older adults won't be on their radar. Teenagers are notoriously selfish and focussed on themselves and their mates cue long list of terribly polite, selfless teens so I wouldn't expect friends or boyfriends to come chat to me. They're there for your dd not you.

I had lost my virginity at 14 going on 15 and so did most of the people in my class at school. Snogging and groping were all things we had done too. There's no right or wrong age for when someone feels ready to start being sexually active as long as it's 100% their decision and they keep safe. Peer pressure can be a tricky thing at that age, but she's going to end up touching a dick sooner rather than later seeing as she'll be 16 next year.
When I would have boyfriend over and we had to keep the bedroom door open at that age we would still find ways to touch each other discreetly (under a blanket or when we could hear my parents both in the other room)

Most Teenage boys do not make small chat with middle age women I'm afraid
This. And what would they have to say that we could possibly want to hear?

Sod 'doors open'. Boys stay in the kitchen unless they are in the living room with family. He's already asked her to touch his dick. No need to allow him the privilege of being alone with her in a bedroom. And have a word with her about keeping safe when she starts touching penises.

Some of you seem to see teenage girls as without their own sexual feelings. I had raging hormones at that age. Not just the teenage boys.

And yes, I think him asking her to do it is pretty normal. Her doing it is also pretty normal at that age. I was a pretty late bloomer but I remember putting my hand on the outside of my BF's trousers at 15/16 - it doesn't necessarily mean a full on hand job.

It's not comfortable to think about - my DSs are 13 and 18 and I really don't want to spend too much time thinking about what goes on in their trousers! We've had the chats about respect and safe sex, DS18 has his GF round to stay and has done for a couple of years.

Before that they would go out for the day together, no idea if they were where they said they were, or round her house getting it on! At some point we have to trust that they will make the right decisions for themselves and arming them with the tools to take care of themselves and their partners is all we can do.

My youngest is DD so I have all this to come with her, but maybe having had boys first I am less negative towards them, as I know they're not all little sex pests trying to take advantage. DS1 is a loyal and respectful boyfriend and he seems very happy with his GF. Neither of them chat much to me when they're here, they pretty much say hello, get some food and disappear upstairs. I'm ok with that and it's pretty much how I was as a teen.

In the immortal words of Cher Horowitz's father "If anything happens to my daughter, I've got a .44 and a shovel. I doubt anybody would miss you".

Just a suggestion...

Another voice to say that "touch his dick" in the situation of the OP is much more likely to be a grope of his lap through trousers and pants than a fully adult hand job type situation. This is still Adrian Mole age 13 3/4 territory (where Pandora wears a lacy slip under her dress and he wants to touch the lace near the top but is only allowed to touch a piece on her thigh instead).

Have a straightforward and direct conversation with her about only going as far as SHE wants. And keep up with the open door policy. It's a good one.

But also, bear in mind, the note could be bravado on her part, bragging to her friend.

It all sounds a bit possessive, as though dd is the OP's pure possession, or the bf's, and the question is who gets to control her.

The answer is neither should the OP be controlling what she does, nor the bf. The dd needs to learn to be in control of herself and her body herself. She may well be curious about the male body, she may be scared, amused, repulsed, attracted. We don't know. But the only important message to give her is that she is absolutely in control of the interactions she takes part in - not her mum, and not her bf. The OP's role should be limited to making that message clear.

As pps have said, the dd also needs to understand where/how to get hold of contraception if needed, and absolutely to be very careful of social media, especially sexting and sending any unclothed pictures/videos or allowing them to be taken. In that sense, you should be quite pleased she discussed this in an old-fashioned written note, OP - at least it wasn't being discussed in a group chat which can be read/forwarded widely.

Just for a different perspective I was very keen to progress things physically with my (same year at school) boyfriend at late 14/15 and was the more confident of the two about doing that. The note sounds like your daughter is very different from how I was of course. My boyfriend and I slept with each other for first time when I was 15 and it was lovely (and great!). Neither of us told anyone til maybe a year later. Maybe this is unusual but it's my genuine experience. Incidentally he was really shy with my mum and didn't say much to her - in my experience when a teenager it was people I knew (male and female) who were confident and cocky who spoke to parents and they were the worst! It was a case of, I've buttered up your parents they think I'm great they suspect nothing now to get booze/weed/shag in bedrooms. They would say ha did you hear what I was telling my best buddy in the kitchen - they were loving it mate etc.

Pretty sick at all the demonisation of teenage boys on here to be honest...teenage girls have sexual urges and feelings too!
For all you know, her new boyfriend might've passed a note to his friend because she's asked him to touch her boobs.
But anyway, you can't judge him on a scrumpled note you found in her pocket.....it might not even be true, or hers. And bear in mind also, the friend egging her on is female, and not her boyfriend pressurising her.

Giving a wank at 15 is nbd. Don't you remember being 15? It's a fun time of fumbling through and learning about sex/sexuality. You sound really uptight. I hope you don't pass your sex negativity onto your daughter, she deserves better.

I'd be more concerned about her and her friend wasting class time writing notes.

I'd be more concerned about her and her friend wasting class time writing notes.

Unless i read it wrong the note does not mean that this boy has asked your DD for a hand job. It's just a silly note from a friend! I'm 40 and this sort of stuff went on when I was this age.

What boy wants this to happen when her mum is in the next room?? Obviously I've never been a teenage boy but I'm thinking that might not be a sexy thought....

I'd keep reiterating the 'doors rule' and make sure she can talk to you about this stuff.

At 14 I was only just learning about snogging (and getting lots of practice). And yes people joked about what you might do with boys (and some people did stuff too) but I didn't because I wasn't ready/didn't want to.

Actually I would be 'fine' with a boy asking that - not because I would like it but because it's normal and completely reminsicent of my own life as a 14/15 yr old. I think you obviously have a very good relationship with your daughter - I had absolutely NO conversations with my mum about this sort of thing - and guess what, I had an abortion while still school age. So - I'm not criticising you - but girls and boys of that age will be talking openly with each other about limits/ sex

I think it's interesting that you say other kids egg them on - absolutely that is what happens - the first kids to get boyfriends/ girlfriends get lots of attention- in fact any relationship under 18 probably involves lots of chat with mates about every detail

At 14 me and my friends were gruesomely intersted in what we all did when alone with boys...very normal!

Maybe i'm old fashioned then but I wouldn't be happy to have my dd touching dicks at 14. I would give her one more chance on the open door policy. If she doesn't stick to it then he doesn't visit again until she's grown up a bit. A 14 year old is a child and I think it is your business to make sure she's making sensible decisions until she's an adult.

I remember talking about sex a lot at this age. I did not have sex till I was 16. But I was interested, as were most of my friends. And I would have been seen as a naive teenager.

I also remember a friend's mum reading her diary at 15 and all hell breaking loose. This friend had written about all the sex she was having with different boys. It was totally fantasy, and written in a Mills and Boon style. Her mother always thought it was true. But fantasy is also common at this age.

At 14 I would stick with the "doors open" rule. You sound like you have a good relationship with your DD, but that doesn't mean she will talk to you about sex. As long as she knows she can if she wants to, and has a good grasp of trust and respect in relationships then you have to let her get on with making her own choices.

Half the fun of being a teenager was finding a quiet place for a snogging session. You don't want her to miss out on that!

Ok I'm back. Talked it through with a very good friend at length this morning and she thought I should tell her I'd seen the note - I didn't go looking for it and it was inside a folded piece of work which I looked at to see if it needed keeping. I have never snooped on her phone so it's not like she needs to fear lack of privacy in the future. It just looked like a fun note you would pass to a friend in a lesson.

She felt if I didn't mention the note it could become a very generic conversation and she could just go blah blah heard it all before BF isn't like that at all, would never do that and therefore the conversation would lack impact.

I would do it on neutral ground, no shouting or telling off obviously but just mentioning the note would put it in context. Would be framed in conversation about respect for yourselves and others, sexual experiences are something to be enjoyed at the right time. Its so hard to write it down without it sounding like a lecture but it wouldn't sound like one.

What do you think? Am honestly asking for opinions so I don't cock it up!

I really don't think you should mention the note. At that age I'd have been mortified if my mom had read something like that and I'd have been angry with her for snooping, even if she didn't mean to.

I think a generic conversation about consent and respect is fine. Your DD needs to know it's okay to not be ready to do these things, and that it's okay to say no if she feels like she isn't ready. Let her know she can talk to you about anything. Let her open up to you, rather than you telling her what you've seen.

I've never been in this position as a parent but it wasn't that long ago I was going through it all as your DD. And that's how I would've wanted my mom to deal with things and how I will approach things in the future with my DS.