to be v concerned about this - DD and boyfriend

[tactum]

DD Y9 (nearly 15 but always quite young for her age) has just got her first boyfriend. He's been in her class and friends with her since y7 and they seem happy and within a large group of secure friendships.

He came over on his own for the first time last week - big school catchment area, rural, so meet ups are very arranged and involve parents dropping off etc. I have been having chats with her about boundaries etc and very specifically stated I wanted all doors to remain open so I could bob in and out. He was here for 4 hours and said about 3 words to me. They spent their time in the lounge watching tv and a couple of times the door was shut. I made an excuse to go in both times and opened it.

After he left I told her I wasn't happy about that and we'd agreed it in advance. I said if agreements weren't respected in future it would be a problem. She maintained nothing happened and she hasn't even kissed him properly yet. I was also a bit peed off that they hadn't popped into the kitchen for a drink so I could have a bit of a chat but hey ho.

Can I just say I have never snooped on her at all, but this morning emptied her blazer pockets to wash it and came across a scribbled note between her and her friend in a class and didn't stop myself from reading it. DD said that BF had expected her to touch his dick when he came round and her friend had told her to go for it - that was said in a jokey way so I don't know how to take that. I am pretty shocked to be honest. I may be being completely naive.

I am also pissed off that this kid thinks he can come round to my house, make no attempt to be polite really and then ask my daughter to do that in my house.

I may be coming across as naive and victorian, but I'm all new to this and floundering. I don't know how to handle this - I know I probably shouldn't have read the note, but now I have how do I handle this? I feel she is way too naive to be thinking about this and am now also set against him and don't know how to get over that if he is going to be a fixture.

Please be a bit gentle with me as I'm all at sea. But I really don't know how to handle this! Is this just completely normal and AIBU for having an issue with it? Surely not?

I had the same thing about doors open at that stage and there was lots of huffing and puffing about my unreasonableness. Years later, turned out she was being pressured to do things she wasn't sure about and was secretly glad I made it difficult

I'd say that sounds good. But try not to project your issues on to your daughter (I.e. I need help/time understanding that you're growing up etc).

And do make sure you discuss photographs and social media. There is a really good documentary on Netflix about 15 year old girls who have been 'shamed' online and around the school.

Also, there seems to be a growing acceptance among 15/16 year old girls that if they're drunk at a party it's perfectly acceptable for boys to have sex with them. They don't seem to realise that this is, in fact, rape. So I'd talk about that with her too.

It's not just about personal boundaries and consent, it's also family boundaries and consideration for those around you.
DH and I wouldn't dream of shutting the door on the family and having a quickie while our teenagers were doing homework in the room next door, and therefore I hope neither would my kids. I would turn a blind eye to what happens when I'm out or asleep or even outside mowing the lawn, but in the same way I wouldn't subject them to the thought of us pleasuring each other when they were around, I would expect them to give us the same consideration. It's not polite!

I don't care if teenage boys are expected to grunt or not, the bare minimum I would expect is a polite greeting and a bit of chit chat. I think it's bollocks to say that all they can do is grunt.

I would also be having a serious, embarrasing chat about boundaries and how she doesn't have to do things she doesn't want to, as well as about contraception. I'd also be making it as difficult as possible for them to be alone in my house (open doors, the rest of it) and asking her to do loads of stuff with you as well, in general. If she really wants to do stuff with her boyfriend, they'll manage it, and if she doesn't really want to, you're providing loads of get out opportunities.

Make sure your chats are not negative about sex overall, emphasising that it's just not the right time / circumstances, rather than sex being something bad, dirty and shameful.

What Ian said.

And from your update please don't emphasise that this is new to you and you're struggling with your DD growing up. A passing comment would be acceptable, otherwise she may just panic and think ok so I can't confide in her about this because I'm still her baby and that's that.

Have definitely not projected on to her 'you're my baby and I can't cope with the fact you're growing up'. More 'this is another new phase for all of us and we all need to be comfortable with it'.

circumcision quite right! Hadn't thought about it that way!
Thanks ladies, all v helpful

It's not all they can do, but I don't know many 14yos who would happily make small talk with their girlfriends/boyfriends parents!

That's pretty excruciating for most teenagers I would have thought!

That sounds like you're handling the talking to your daughter well. The only thing that I'd do differently is I wouldn't expect a teenage boy to take the initiative to come and find to talk to you. When I went through to speak to dd I'd also talk to him, "How did your exams go? what are you doing over the summer? Etc..."

IMO the boy's behaviour was totally inappropriate (assuming the note was true, and your description of the door being shut fits with this having happened). As PP said he could be applying pressure for her to have sex, or to masturbate him. No doubt the circle of friends are watching with fascination or glee to see what happens next, having no experience themselves. As a parent I would do my best to discourage this friendship, (no lifts, no invitations to the house) and if relationship with DD is otherwise good I would discuss the note with her, and try and persuade her to dump him for pushing for this.

I think it's pretty poor to say 'all teenage boys grunt at that age' when they don't. It's really insulting to boys.

I've known my DSS and his friends since they were 12. They've never just 'grunted' at me, even though I'm a middle-aged bat.

But anyway, like Pengggwn says, the important word here is 'no' - and the key thing is your DD knowing it's good to say it if she wants to.

I think the chat about how boys don't want to be your bestie, and that he obviously wants to be your boyfriend. That he will try to get what he can in the form of "favours" That at her age, him wanting her to touch his penis is not appropriate and if he doesn't get his way he may well decide to move on or pressure you, if he really likes you he will respect you and not try to make you do things you aren't ready for and don't want to do.
That this is a test for him too, if he is worth dating and keeping he will be respectful, if he's out for what he can get he won't.
She must never lower her standards, and to not belive all the crap other girls or boys tell her. Most haven't had sex, or touched each other no matter what they say, it's all bravado.
Don't fall for the pressure, be strong,be proud and be yourself.
That your job as her parent is protect her from pressures, and that part of this is all door stay open, nothing goes on under your watch and if he doesn't like it that is his problem and not hers.
I made sure to tell my kids that they could use me as an excuse any time, "my mums on her way" "my mum will kill me" etc etc. And can tell me anything.

surely at nearly 15 she could be allowed to shut the door? Do you not think she should be allowed to even kiss? If you don't let them have ten minutes alone in her room- where are they going to meet so they can kiss? I had kissed boys at 14!!

It would wind me up reading the note too - but it's absolutely normal for kids this age. They have known each other since they were 11 it's not odd that he asked her that. As people say - keep her talking to you - keep the lines of communication open and stress to her NEVER to let herself get photographed in a comprimising position or pressured into sex.

ps I would have died of mortification if my mum had made me come in and have a chat in the kitchen with a new boyfriend at that age.

sorry but circumcision that is not a fair comparison. You get to sleep with your DP every night ! A teenager only gets the snatched moments and I think at 14 they are legitimately interested in kissing/ experimenting - definitely by 15 most people were snogging boys regularly. Do you want them to wait and only do it at parties? Where else do they meet?

I think they should be allowed to shut the door. Kissing, etc, is normal at this age. I remember many hours spent kissing and cuddling at this age. And remember teenage girls have sexual feelings too.

waterrat I have no issue with them kissing/snogging - if the door had remained open I would have called out her name before i entered the room anyway and she knew this - I am not actively trying to catch them out at all, and have no desire to see that at all.

I don't mind them snogging, cuddling up but none of that needs the door shut - if I call her from the hall and then walk in the room that's long enough for tongues to be extracted from mouths. Wanting and actively shutting the door is more calculated and takes longer for me to get in and makes me feel much more uncomfortable about what may be going on in there, and less able to reassure myself. It's only the first time they've met on their own outside of school ffs.

I would not snog a boy at 14 with the living room door open. I do think YABU. She is not a baby.

Buy a fuck tonne of door stops - really big ones that wedge under the door

I agree with Ian and Nuka. I would not let on you know about the note. I would however, look for opportunities to talk "women to women" and be very open and very explicit, and non judgey, in your discussions, however uncomfortable they may make you feel. It is her body, her choice with whom she shares it, but she needs to know practical ways in which to explore her sexuality safely. That its ok to say no and make sure she is comfortable with the pace things progress and be informed about sexual health (condoms) and contraception - perhaps having condoms available, some youngsters think that as its underage/illegal they can't buy them themselves? Lots of "what would you do if' conversations e.g what if you needed emergency contraception, how would you get it in your rural area? Listen very carefully to the answers and double check anything that is not clear. I would also try and get to know the lad, he might be lovely and it could be your dd who wants the door closed. (Your house your rules by the way, but they can get round that if they want to.) Finally, you say you live rurally, I would be curious if they started taking "walks" in the countryside/fields. She is a young woman, this is an opportunity to deepen your relationship with her by treating her as such. Good luck, you are lucky to have seen the note in a way, its a great clue as to what 14/15 year olds have their focus on - things haven't changed much - never underestimate the power of hormones.

OK but you would be fine with it being closed and your 14 yr old dd being asked to touch a boys dick?

I know I'm out in left-field, but I think it is not just about boundaries, consent and saying 'no', because that frames sex as something that boys want that girls provide. It does not focus on the fact that anything your daughter does (if she does) should be on her terms and for her pleasure - i.e. she should not just be angsting over whether to touch his dick or not (if she was) but she should be empowered to also be saying 'if this gets sexual then it's not just about you, I expect something from this too'.

Having said that, I'm not sure what to suggest re resources. In my day we had Our Bodies Ourselves and a few other feminist resources (that was just after the clitoris had been discovered and we'd dispelled the myth of the vaginal orgasm) ... but surely there is something more modern out there for girls?

She's 14, she is going to have boyfriends and very soon will touch a dick.
Why on earth do you think the boyfriend would chat to you, he's a 14 year old boy! They aren't getting married it's a first boyfriend it's fine that he's a teenager and doesn't want to chat to you.
As for asking your daughter to touch his dick, firstly you shouldn't have read the note and shouldn't know and second, no this isn't disrespectful to you, do you actually think teenagers think about purchase status of a house.
He likes her, she likes him, they are starting to be curious, sounds like she said no.
Have the respect yourself and don't be pushed into what you don't want to do chat but to be honest I think you are in real danger of pushing her to rebel and as for the 'not under my roof' group, do you honestly think they don't just sneak round the back of the gym block at break at school or somewhere else.

I'm surprised at all the posters who think it's 'OK' and 'normal' for teenage boys just to grunt at people, ignore their girlfriend's mother, and generally be antisocial because all they can think about is sex (and because 'middle-aged woman are invisible to them'. What's that teaching them about sexual equality, politeness and respect?)

My dd's boyfriend is chatty when he comes over - we have meals together and tbh I expect a 'hello' and general politeness of people who are in my house! It's not too much to ask. They have to do it at school, so why not when they go to a friend's/gf's house?

My dd's friends (13 ) are all lovely and chatty too, and I'd be sorry if that changed in the next year or so.