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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What is your moral stance on this?

73 replies

BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 14:54

I will try to be factual, any questions, please ask.

My uncle and aunt emigrated in 2009, They have 2 sons and a daughter, adults, who stayed in U.K. A house and flat were left behind and left in Son 1 name.
Eldest sons do not get on due to disastrous wedding of Son 1.
Marriage break up of aunt and uncle in 2011, aunt moves into the house, uncle follows in 2012. Uncle sold business abroad.
Uncle put equity into son 1 account, divided in 2 and gave half to aunt.
Uncle bought 2 houses and a flat in son 1 name.
Son 1 now has uncles 3 houses and 2 flats in his name.
Son 2 moves into one of the houses, uncle moves into one of the houses, aunt already lives in one of them and the two flats are rented out.
Aunt and uncle get divorced, aunt wants uncles name off property. Uncle cannot take name off property as aunt unable to remortgage. Aunt starts tirade of abuse to uncle, son 1 sides with aunt and joins in on abuse.
Son 1 and son 2 realise that there is hundreds of thousands of pounds in two of the houses and the two flats. They decide to collude and start selling the houses.
The house that son 2 lives in goes on market. Uncles mobile and wifi cut off. Son 1 visits tenants in flats and tells tenants that he is new owner and Flats are for sale. Uncle blocks sales and asks what the fuck is going on. Son 1 states all properties are his, except the house that Son 2 lives in, doesn't uncle remember he gave it to son 2?(!!!!!!!)

What would you do?

OP posts:
Winniethepooer · 14/07/2017 14:56

Sorry thats really confusing!! Confused

Katedotness1963 · 14/07/2017 14:56

I'd rue the day I'd ever put anything in my selfish children's names!

Original poster
BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 14:57

I know Envy so annoying but cannot simplify it any more Sad

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 14/07/2017 14:58

Why was the Dad putting all the property in Son 1's name? If it was tax avoidance, he got what he deserved.

Lweji · 14/07/2017 15:01

Stay out of it.

Your uncle and aunt were silly to put their houses and money in their son (s?) names. Was it for tax purposes or to get tax credits?
Their mess.
I feel sorry for the daughter who seems to have been completely forgotten.

MikeUniformMike · 14/07/2017 15:02

I'd stay well out of it.

Original poster
BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 15:03

Uncle bought business abroad and would have been maxed out on credit if he kept properties and business here.
On his return, he had had been out of country for years and did not have credit file.

OP posts:
RainbowJack · 14/07/2017 15:05

Stay out of it.

I also think the Uncle was monumentally stupid to put everything in one childs name.

Lweji · 14/07/2017 15:08

Weird explanations.
Did those houses have mortgages on them? Who paid the mortgage?

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/07/2017 15:12

Reminds me of a section of my family. They're like Chris from the Fast Show. "He's a little bit werrrr, a little bit weyyyyyy, a little bit arrrrgggh, a little bit dodgy."

They can't do things by the book, legally, protecting themselves and without deception and fraud. They laugh at people who do things properly. Then they complain when the system doesn't help them when it all goes tits up.

Original poster
BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 15:12

Yes, all have mortgages.
Uncle pays his mortgage, aunt pays her mortgage, son 2 makes rental payments to uncle for his house.
I am asking what would you do or what advice you would give to your uncle. It's destroying him that his sons are doing this when he entrusted them with so much in good faith (boost their credit ratings, vast amounts of monetary support from success of business abroad, life experience, employment etc)
It's so heartbreaking to see.

OP posts:
Original poster
BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 15:13

There's no illeagalities in thiS.

OP posts:
Jellybean85 · 14/07/2017 15:14

Well he did essentially give them to his son by putting them in his name and not
Drawing up legal paperwork saying it was a trust. Very silly really

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/07/2017 15:20

There's no illeagalities in thiS. Not if he actually gave them away. Which means they are Son 1's to do with as he wishes. If they were still Uncle's really then the Son 1's credit rating was a lie, Uncle was applying for credit fraudulently, his credit rating was also a lie.

HirplesWithHaggis · 14/07/2017 15:21

Uncle should have sought advice years ago. The properties belong to his son(s) and they have royally stitched him up.

How did he block the sale?

pigsDOfly · 14/07/2017 15:21

Well uncle sounds very naive to have just handed over to one of his children what sounds like a quiet a decent chunk of real estate and therefore, what must be a very large sum of money; and thereby cutting his other two children completely out of any possible inheritance. Why would anyone do that? Did he really think that son 1 would just divide up the spoils equality when the time came.

Money does strange things to people.

I know it's the uncles money and he can give it to whomsoever he chooses but personally, I think giving one child everything is grossly unfair.

Is the uncle happy with the outcome of his actions?

Lweji · 14/07/2017 15:22

They're not paying their own mortgages if the houses are in someone else's names and the mortgages are too.
It all sounds dodgy.

pigsDOfly · 14/07/2017 15:23

Just seen your post saying uncle isn't happy.

Think he's been a bit stupid tbh.

Oliversmumsarmy · 14/07/2017 15:32

Son 1 states all properties are his, except the house that Son 2 lives in, doesn't uncle remember he gave it to son 2

Uncle pays his mortgage, aunt pays her mortgage, son 2 makes rental payments to uncle for his house

Why is son 2 making rental payments if he owns the house.

Why didn't Uncle spread the houses between everyone?

Why couldn't Aunt remortgage her own house?

How stupid do you have to be to cause an argument when someone is holding all your property in their name

Softkitty2 · 14/07/2017 15:35

He needs a lawyer NOW and as a business man he should have known better.

stuntcamel · 14/07/2017 15:41

Uncle needs to take all the paperwork to a good lawyer. He probably needs to consult an accountant as well.

Might be worth the aunt doing the same, either together or separately if they don't get on.

Son 1 is going to have some explaining to do to the taxman in the near future methinks.

Original poster
BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 15:47

Son 2 doesn't own the house, that's what he is claiming now so that him and son 1 can keep equity in it.
Uncle put block on marketing property via solicitor until dispute resolved.
All sounds a bit messy doesn't it, but to the family it's my cousins robbing my uncle and it's awful to sit back and watch them take everything he's earnt from 40+ years of hard graft.

OP posts:
Original poster
BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 15:48

Stunt - yes to the tax man for son 1! Feel like shopping him in myself!

OP posts:
deffoncforthis · 14/07/2017 15:50

They can't do things by the book, legally, protecting themselves and without deception and fraud. They laugh at people who do things properly. Then they complain when the system doesn't help them when it all goes tits up.

Yeah, I have these too. Although I will say this:

If it was tax avoidance, he got what he deserved.

There is inheritance tax, where the government simply robs the dead because it can get away with it, grabbing from what an individual works to save when they can't defend themselves. And they'll happily do that to thousands of people for a fraction of a tax concession they'll give one large multinational.

There was a time I would have used "deserve" as you just did, but by doing this, these days the government are certainly not behaving better than a common burglar or mugger. They're a bit weah a bit wurr themselves tbh.

Lweji · 14/07/2017 15:51

They're not robbing him because he put it all in son's 1 name, it seems.
He's breaking his dad's trust, sure, but your uncle gambled to get something out of it if he didn't really intend for his sons to have those properties.