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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What is your moral stance on this?

73 replies

BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 14:54

I will try to be factual, any questions, please ask.

My uncle and aunt emigrated in 2009, They have 2 sons and a daughter, adults, who stayed in U.K. A house and flat were left behind and left in Son 1 name.
Eldest sons do not get on due to disastrous wedding of Son 1.
Marriage break up of aunt and uncle in 2011, aunt moves into the house, uncle follows in 2012. Uncle sold business abroad.
Uncle put equity into son 1 account, divided in 2 and gave half to aunt.
Uncle bought 2 houses and a flat in son 1 name.
Son 1 now has uncles 3 houses and 2 flats in his name.
Son 2 moves into one of the houses, uncle moves into one of the houses, aunt already lives in one of them and the two flats are rented out.
Aunt and uncle get divorced, aunt wants uncles name off property. Uncle cannot take name off property as aunt unable to remortgage. Aunt starts tirade of abuse to uncle, son 1 sides with aunt and joins in on abuse.
Son 1 and son 2 realise that there is hundreds of thousands of pounds in two of the houses and the two flats. They decide to collude and start selling the houses.
The house that son 2 lives in goes on market. Uncles mobile and wifi cut off. Son 1 visits tenants in flats and tells tenants that he is new owner and Flats are for sale. Uncle blocks sales and asks what the fuck is going on. Son 1 states all properties are his, except the house that Son 2 lives in, doesn't uncle remember he gave it to son 2?(!!!!!!!)

What would you do?

OP posts:
Lweji · 14/07/2017 15:52

If it was to avoid inheritance tax, he'd have put different houses in different children's names and would have kept at least one to himself.

BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 15:53

And that's why I asked for your moral stance. Legally they're trustees but not beneficiaries.

OP posts:
Whosthemummynow · 14/07/2017 15:54

Son 2 doesn't own the house, that's what he is claiming now so that him and son 1 can keep equity in it

This makes no sense? You can't just decide that you own someone else's house. Who's names are on the deeds?

BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 15:56

Exactly! Son 1 who's mortgage it is, is saying that son 2 is the sole beneficiary of the property.
It's like a switch has gone off in their heads, I would love to know when the properties suddenly became theirs.

OP posts:
Purplepicnic · 14/07/2017 15:58

What would I do?

Get legal advice

Go back in time and not put anything in someone else's name

Lweji · 14/07/2017 15:59

But whose names are on the deeds and whose names are on the mortgages?

Notreallyarsed · 14/07/2017 16:05

I feel sorry for the daughter in all this, she's got fuck all and her family has turned on each other. She must be having a horrible time. And yes to the poster who commented on inheritance tax! The government didn't do a damn thing while my mum was dying of cancer, not a fucking thing, they didn't sort her pension in time and had cut funding to the point that hospice care and end of life home care was almost impossible to get yet they were quick enough to freeze her accounts and keep them frozen til they got their cut! Imo that money should go to my dad, he and my mum worked bloody hard for it.

Gemini69 · 14/07/2017 16:07

wow my head hurt reading that ..

provider5sectorzz9 · 14/07/2017 16:07

They laugh at people who do things properly. Then they complain when the system doesn't help them when it all goes tits up
indeed!

amicissimma · 14/07/2017 16:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BastardBernie · 14/07/2017 16:13

Finding it really hard to understand the posters with the mindset of :

They laugh at people who do things properly. Then they complain when the system doesn't help them when it all goes tits up

This isn't the case for my uncle. Everything he has done is above board and for the family.

OP posts:
Notreallyarsed · 14/07/2017 16:15

It's not strictly above board though is it OP? It's all been some kind of tax dodge/way of saving money/avoiding something.

provider5sectorzz9 · 14/07/2017 16:21

the uncle has been naive, he should realise that most people will look after their own best interests

Jaxhog · 14/07/2017 16:30

Your Uncle needs to see a property lawyer ASAP.

Otherwise ten foot and a barge pole spring to mind.

Jaxhog · 14/07/2017 16:31

Advise uncle to read King Lear and be kind to the neglected daughter.
I did enjoy that!

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/07/2017 16:34

Everything he has done is above board and for the family.

Either this is the case, in which case the son owns the property and it is his to dispose of OR it was done for some reason. What was that reason? Tax avoidance? Trying to move debt around to fraudulently obtain more? To make the son's credit look better than it is? Or some other reason?

At the very least there's some shitty sexism going on.

Lweji · 14/07/2017 16:35

How was it above board?

Lweji · 14/07/2017 16:36

It certainly wasn't for the family if only one child has houses in their name.

Fairenuff · 14/07/2017 16:43

It doesn't matter who's name is on the mortgage. Who owns each of the properties?

Notreallyarsed · 14/07/2017 16:51

Whose names are on the deeds to the properties?

provider5sectorzz9 · 14/07/2017 17:09

the properties are owned by the son in the eyes of the law, but they 'really' belong to the uncle

and that's all above board is it, or do you mean 'above board'

Sugarpiehoneyeye · 14/07/2017 17:09

Uncle urgently needs to take legal advice.

NellieFiveBellies · 14/07/2017 17:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

yoyo1234 · 14/07/2017 17:20

As lots of PP have said DODGY. As for the morals of it, you reap what you sow. What about the daughter (sexism ?). Personally I think pretty near any BTL in the UK is morally very dubious. Then you have all the moving around of named ownership of property (terryprachett... poster had some possible explanation for that, non which sound particularly moral).

yoyo1234 · 14/07/2017 17:25

I am confused with son 1 having mortgages on the properties. Could it be that mortgage companies will (frequently) only lend to those that have a good credit history, but also they may insist person's name has to be on the deeds. Was son 1 the only one who could take in outstanding mortgages?

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