AIBU to think DH should get a job instead?

[EvilGreedyWife]

DH set up his own company beginning of the year. I was just asking about how much he has made in first 6 months (has been busy, enough work to do, I can't say he's been just sitting there doing nothing), and it means he could pay himself just about 1/6th of his previous salary per month. This is less than minimum wage in this country and would barely make a dent in our outgoings.

I earn a decent salary but we also have high mortgage and other expenses, and it's getting quite tight - in fact Dhs main topic of conversation has been money recently and how we spend too much and have too little.

My opinion is that this is clearly not sustainable. He should forget about the company and concentrate on finding a job, he could easily earn 8-9 times that. Trouble is currently there are no opportunities in our area - he would need to commute for about 1-1.5h one way (or stay over and commute weekly).

So my opinion: he just needs to suck it up and do it until something comes up closer to home. Especially as he does not see his company income drastically improving, ever.
His opinion - I'm U expecting him to do this, he would have no life, no hobbies, never see the kids. I'm especially U as my own job is a comfortable 10 min commute away.

AIBU?

But evil you are considering your options because you don't like the job you are doing. NOT because your partner is forcing you to stop doing the thing you wanted (a business, his dream?) because said partner doesn't want to support you for more than 6 months.

Supporting your partner whilst they start a new business/study/look for a new job/SAHP isn't unusual and IMO not an issue at all.

It needs to be discussed. And one partner cannot impose their view on the other (nor you imposing for him to go back to work when he doesn't want to nor him imposing on you to have all the financial responsibilities when you haven't agreed to it)

Being self employed is always bringing some instability and some ups and downs. That's part of being self employed TBH.

I'm finding that sort of conversation very interesting though. There has always been so many discussions on MN on how it was only fair that a new mum would go back to work. I hate it, I should be able to chose what to do and we can live in DH salary anyway even if we will need to be more careful.
But when things are reversed and it's a man that doesnt bring the full time income, then it's seen as unacceptable.... And it's not possible to have a drop in living standards etc...

For all those saying it takes longer for a business to make money, it sounds like he's not really operating as a business, more of a freelance consultant role which should have next to no overheads.

I know plenty of people, myself included that moved from an employed to self employed freelance "job title" consultant and were making profit immediately, and charging enough for work that they had enough to cover them in quieter periods.

Would be a pain of course, but you do what you got to do.

Does he necessarily got to, though? If you can forgive my grammar. I mean, how much slack is there to reduce your costs without doing anything dramatic? And is he being dramatic, or would he never see the kids if he had 1.5 hours at each end of the day? I must say, if he'd not be home til 7 and they're in bed at 7.30, I see his point. Less so if they're 11 and in bed at 9.

Also mummymeister there's no 'obviously' about it. It's a possibility that DH is only getting work because he's so cheap, but it's also possible that his customers would pay more than he's charging. We need more information really. He would BU not to raise rates if he could make more money that way, obviously.

he's being dramatic, there would be plenty of chance to start earlier, work flexibly, be home way before bedtime. Yes, of course that kind of commute would not be easy but still.
I don't know, maybe I am totally unreasonable, but we just discussed the numbers today and minimum wage is just ridiculous. He's working at a loss - we have a cleaner, childminder and dogwalker who cost more than what he earns..

I dont think you're being totally unreasonable. I do think you may be according too high a priority to the cleaner and dog walker, for a start. What would the finances look like if you checked them plus his office space?

Honestly I think we'd need specifics here, which I realise you may not want to give. The fair solution would be some sort of compromise, but it's whether and how that's feasible.

I work with lots of start ups. I see lots of mental health issues.

Your DH sounds like one of them. Maybe he is running from bad experiences, a bully boss who destroyed his self-esteem, being rejected for promotions and being too old in his mind for a less senior role and being freelance excuses that problem, maybe even being good at his job but bad with people/politics and so not being as successful as he feels he should be.

Often the key is to get a life coach or business coach. They can say the things you can't, or be listened to anyway. They can help him find the right answer not the hiding in his supposed entrepreneur role. There might be volunteer or cheap options for that available.

Really feel for you, Cessj. I hope things work out.

OP - don't want to sound critical, but are the cleaner and dog walker essential? How many hours a week is he actually working? Could he work from home (saving the cost of renting the office) and do a bit of cleaning and take the dogs out? It's absolutely crazy to be paying people to do these things if his hourly income is less than the cost of paying them.

It sounds to me as if you have fundamentally different attitudes to work and money. These need to be recognised and discussed. Does he want a simpler life? When he says you need to cut down expenses does he elaborate? Perhaps he was. Wry unhappy in his previous work. Think about his family background. Do they prefer leisure to possessions? Sit down and discuss your financial expectations. Perhaps he is just financially illiterate and does not understand how much ordinary life costs, or perhaps he does not think the same things are essential as you do. You are not being U, but I think you do need to find out what his attitudes, beliefs and values are.

Sorry, very unhappy

You cannot continue with a champagne lifestyle on lemonade money can you. the dog walker, the cleaner, the gardener all need to go. if they are making more in a week than he does then this is a bonkers situation that cannot go on.

I still have no idea how many hours he works. can only agree that he sounds like a consultant rather than a business that can expand.

the only way to tackle this is with the facts. have you seen his business plan, can he talk you through it. I have asked all these questions up thread but you seem reluctant to answer. I can understand you don't want to out yourself but I do a lot of small business support and advice work and cant really help any more unless you are willing to give a few more specifics. what has his gross turnover been in 6 months and what was it projected for the year?

Having a spouse who is self employed/running their own business can be incredibly hard, IME.

DH started his own business a few years ago - then expanded it dramatically, then did the same again a year later. It's just at the point of starting to make money rather than just breaking even (the nature of the business means it has a large growth once a year, all being well)

However, it has almost broken us as a couple and almost broken me. I work full time in a demanding job, I support us financially, and I also support him a lot practically in the business. I'm not being bigheaded, but he absolutely could not have done it without me. But it is and has been incredibly hard, 16-18 hour days 7 days a week.

I have only been able to suck this up because I could see there was an end in sight where it would eventually get better and worthwhile if we could just make it to this point. However, even though I could see this there were still times when I wanted to throw in the towel.

Assuming you are correct that there isn't really a plan for this business to become any bigger/better than it is...then I would find it very difficult to sustain. It's one thing to support someone in their dream when you can see it will get somewhere, but not when it just seems to be dragging you down with no end in sight.

Sorry to be blunt but your post says it all: if he were to take other employment, he would have no life, not see kids etc. The way things are going, what kind of life do you think you'll have - as a family - 6, 12 months down the line?? It's not about his life or your job, it's your family's future. Time to stop thinking like a single free individual and get his - and your - priorities straight. If he's not earning enough now, and has no actual plan to do better, the maths won't lie. You can ditch the cleaner but after that, where do you reduce your spending? By not paying the mortgage? Feeding your kids less? Bracing reality check needed, I feel. And some honest communication between you and DH with actions agreed. Treat it like a business decision for the sake of your family.

thank you all for your inputs, I'll try to answer:

• yes mummymeister it's more of a consultant role, so just him, working on various work packages.
• office space is very cheap. He got it because he claimed it was impossible to work from home - first that he was always distracted by domestic stuff and also isolated, as he never saw anybody. wouldn't make a massive difference to get rid.

-I have tried to talk to him about his business plan but he always gets defensive, says I don't trust him and always think I know better. So I tried to trust when he said there was a plan.

• I wouldn't say he wants a simpler lifestyle, he very much likes all the luxuries
• he had some issues in one workplace but that was many years ago. He was quite happy at his last place, so I don't think it's that

I hear what you all are saying about cutting back. I'm finding it very hard though, because the potential for us to have a very nice and comfortable life is there - with him just working on individual contributor level in his profession, no career ladder climbing required. So from my perspective, it's simply not fair not to use the potential for family's benefit, but instead earn just a fraction of what you could.

Because working like this would make you happier? Of course I don't want him to be miserable, but you can't choose your jobs based solely on how much fun it is and how easy. I have a second, hobby-type of job as well. I asked DH what would happen if I one day declared that I don't want to do my day job any more and am just planning to do the hobby job for minimum wage. He didn't have an answer.

He's otherwise a really nice husband,this is the only thing we disagree about. And we can't discuss it without him getting defensive.
Maybe yes business consulting would help.

The thing is OP, you're talking about the family benefit, but he's a part of the family. Him not having to do a 2-3 hour commute each day is just as 'comfortable' as having a cleaner, dog walker and gardener.

Honestly I think both of you are being both reasonable and unreasonable here, as I said upthread. You've each picked something you want, in his case a hobby job and in yours what you deem to be a higher standard of living, and want the other to carry the can for making it happen. Which is unreasonable. And equally, you're both being reasonable in not wanting to shoulder the majority of the financial burden without that being agreed (you) and not wanting to do a daily 3 hour commute (him).

That said, the comments about his views on money are contradictory. You say he likes the luxuries, but he also has said he wants the family to cut down: what did he have in mind? Does he understand what you would be losing? Actually him getting defensive and refusing to communicate would fuck me right off. If I was going to be ok with this, I'd need to be fully appraised of everything. There'd need to be a plan about how the finances were going to work. It sounds like the communication isn't amazing on this issue?

Yes, some outside input sounds like a good idea. He obviously just gets very defensive when he's talking to you.
For what it's worth, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all, but you may have to try to find some middle ground if you can.

If you had paid off your mortgage and had plenty of spare income, then it would be ok. But it's jeopardising your financial stability so with no plan on place for growth it's pretty selfish. Presumably he is not paying into a pension either.
Most people working full time don't have time for hobbies or spending time with family except at the weekend. So that's a bogus argument.
If he won't talk about it then you have no choice but to start making cut backs. Perhaps giving up a few luxuries might make him start to see sense.

Most people working full time don't have time for hobbies or spending time with family except at the weekend. So that's a bogus argument.

Really? I'd want to see some receipts on that claim, not least because there are a great many 'hobby' activities run in evenings and it seems illogical to suggest the people going to them are primarily people who are free to attend at other times too. We don't all live in the south east with 3 hour daily commutes.

You raise a valid point about pensions though.

You say he likes the luxuries, but he also has said he wants the family to cut down: what did he have in mind?

That's the thing, he's been spending time in the past couple of weeks sighing and complaining that we don't have money and need to cut back without a single constructive solution. When I ask what his solutions are, he again takes it as a personal attack..

My point is that a hobby is not a get out clause from getting a proper job. If you can find time for a hobby after or before work thats great. But the H in this situation is saying he wouldn't have a life if he got a job with a commute. I just don't think that's a valid argument. Hobbies do not trump a decent income. We would all choose the hobbies and the family time if that were the case. But unless you've acquired a stack of money by some other means you don't get to choose.

Surely when he moans about money and refuses to commute then the answer is for him to stay home and do childcare, cleaning and dog walking and return to his hobby job when DC are at school...

As a family the current situation is financial suicide so he has to make the choice

Business bring in £x per month
Find a job earning £x pee month
Do not work and save the family £x per month, not rocket science...

He is being a cock lodger. Wants to fanny around with his failing business, while you go out to work every day and the rest of the family make cut backs. Make him get a proper job.

@PurplePeppers actually I find it equally unacceptable when a woman decides unilaterally to give up work after children , except in that instance at least there is a tangible benefit to the family as a whole (saved child care, nicer home life for the working parent etc)

so it's ok for him to commute. Work long hours not see the kids but you wont compromise and commute yourself?

It's not so much hobbies specifically as the ability to do anything other than slump in the evening majestic: see it as a metaphor for that. And lots of people do get to choose whether they want more time or more money for luxuries, and it's a perfectly mainstream choice to want the former. A three hour daily commute is something many would do a great deal to avoid, and they're not BU to feel like that. It's a mainstream position.

Saying that, this from OP concerns me:

That's the thing, he's been spending time in the past couple of weeks sighing and complaining that we don't have money and need to cut back without a single constructive solution. When I ask what his solutions are, he again takes it as a personal attack..

In that respect OP, he is definitely BU. If he wants to be able to trade time for money, that's a legitimate aspiration in itself. Refusing to communicate, stonewalling and not accepting his joint responsibility for making it work is NOT. He is making a choice and there will be consequences to that choice. He needs to own them.