Charlie Gard 7

[CaveMum]

Continuation of the discussion.

It looks highly unlikely that there will be a verdict today as GOSH have not yet been able to put their case across. The Gard family had their position heard this morning and currently an expert witness from the US is being questioned via video link.

I totally agree with everything in your last post Shatners.

For me, my passion is stirred up by the online abuse - of anyone! I agree it's a problem that has grown and grown. It's need drumming into our collective conscious that it is not ok, and illegal.

People confuse freedom of speech with being allowed to say whatever they like even if it includes threatening to 'Bazooka' and children's hospital or 'put an hammer' into a QC's face.

I would happily dominated to a dedicated fund to deal with it.

I really hope today that some kind of consensus if made between the two sides if this case about how to go forward. I don't have much hope it will, but I can hope.

Dominated?? Donate.

Morning all. Hearing is listed for 1400 today I believe?

DM link www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4694272/Charlie-Gard-judge-threatens-JAIL-trolls.html LJ Francis threatens to jail trolls targetting GOSH medics.

Lets hope there's a resolution one way or the other today

I know it's been pointed out on another thread, but I struggle to see how so many of CA square the principle - that Charlie's parents should be able to decide his treatment - with cases of intervention such as refusal of a blood transfusion for a child from Jehovah's Witnesses, who believe profoundly that Gods Will should prevail.

Does that child also not deserve a chance?

If parental rights are paramount, then they are so in all cases - you can't just pick and choose when such a right may or may not be applied.

(Equally though the Great Ormond tribe of trolls have also made threats and abuse to members of Charlie Army and Charlies relatives, but yes lets not sink down to their level. I imagine gosh doesn't want them types becoming self appointed spokesman for their brand so best ignoring them and rising above them.) that was taken from the army, lol, unbeilevable.

Heres another ( My comment was reported and I was block for 24 hours yes it may of been violent but not violent towards anyone on here or the family it's to the people in this case we're all fighting for the same thing to save Charlie and I won't let people reporting my comment stop me supporting Charlie I will fight along side him until the end because every baby deserves a chance) so obvuiously if it was reported she has been inciting violence, I do not think she understands this though.

At least some of the people are saying that the threats of violence were uncalled for and they were not happy about it themselves, which is good, lets hope this has perhaps putting a bit of an end to the threats of violence towards anyone.

Yes, Mucky, I saw that one too, bit worrying isn't it.I couldn't help hearing it said in a scary voice when I read it!

Smiling yes fit took me a while to realise there seems to be miracle cures for all sorts of things, considered generally incurable. And the FB groups can be full of drama, 'trolls' accusations etc it is a scary place to be for the sick and vulnerable. And this accusation that you haven't tried, have 'given up the fight' One group called the members 'warriors' due to their 'fighting' (in reality, having multiple surgeries, often worsening the situation'. Please choosing to learn to live with the condition were not tolerated. I left and made my own small group in the end, for people just living with it.

I guess it would be quite easy to trace people on FB as many have all their contact details and open profiles etc.

Legal documents are grammatically strange anyway. They are written according to historical protocols.

I had one almost entirely without full stops once. But apparently adding them would have changed the legal meaning...

Oh I know Bore, FotL loons always attach themselves to cases like this don't they?

Remember that thread you have linked to well - very entertaining!

Anyway bit off topic!

I've been wondering about the involvement of the anti-choice brigade. How do they react if people from other countries go to the US and start telling them they are wrong? Has it ever happened? Can't imagine they like it if it has.

"So many grammar and spelling mistakes in that GOSH NHS submission."

I spotted a couple

But why does it matter?

How can you read that position statement and pick over grammar? It is reasoned, restrained, yet so full of passion for the welfare of a child who is suffering, and compassion for parents who are also suffering. It speaks with great dignity about the battle that has become, and shows understanding for the difficulties the parents are having.

I've been thinking about the future for other similar situations and whether this would mean more people going to the courts if the treatment is allowed...or possibly could it mean the NHS doing more to prevent that happening, such as mediating more in order to prevent such things happening? If that happened may be better than the former.

On this subject, there was an interesting letter from an NHS consultant in the Times recently which was on the subject of people fundraising for treatment abroad (it was cancer specifically and places offering things like IV Vit C treatment) and he was saying the NHS needs to develop more ways of patients being able to pay towards such treatments here and it could mean new developments in care. That here, in the NHS people aren;t supported enough when something is terminal or a 'hopeless case' and that is why they turn to these expensive treatments elsewhere.

Is there any coverage of this meeting this morning or is that in private?

That GOSH statement made me so sad for his parents, but so proud of GOSH and our legal system.
Sadly CA will never bother reading it, much less absorbing its meaning.

I strongly hope this morning's meeting is for all the professionals to try and find some consensus as to what this "improvement" would likely look like, and possibly more importantly what it definitely wouldn't look like. I don't think we're realistically looking at him ever breathing unaided, or moving, or seeing, or hearing etc. I think the most they could hope for would be the sort of inprovement not researchers really care about- some less damaged cells show some slight increase in mitochondrial activity etc. I don't think for a second the improvements would produce anything that would give him any functional or meaningful quality of life whatsoever. I hope they can all reach those facts this morning. And that they can go back to the Judge this afternoon saying that. I think the Judge is showing incredible kindness and latitude to the family by trying to get them to face the facts one last time.

That's the only way I can see this ending.

Sorry if this has already been posted - link to QC representing GOSH's statement yesterday

t.co/X9WHHjhl3u

[Link edited by MNHQ at poster's request]

Hopefully the parents might read it.

The statement is very moving and compassionate. I normally get annoyed by poor spelling and grammar but I was so engrossed in the subject matter that I didn't notice any. I think that is the important thing in this case.

@Venusflytwat

Yes - I think there's very much a lack of clarity on what "improvement" would mean.

As you say, beneficial changes at a cellular level, whilst academically significant do not automatically result in better standard of life for Charlie.

I cant make that link work sashh

I just noticed and made comment. I agree it's not as important as the main message of the document. I just have high expectations and standards of these things and get irritated when they are not met. I won't comment further on this.

Also wondering if there will be any coverage this morning and still a bit confused as to what is happening today. Will there still be a 'ruling'?

I still can't believe someone said that Charlie suffering is better than being dead.

cjt there is also a working link a few pages back to it.