Charlie Gard 7

[CaveMum]

Continuation of the discussion.

It looks highly unlikely that there will be a verdict today as GOSH have not yet been able to put their case across. The Gard family had their position heard this morning and currently an expert witness from the US is being questioned via video link.

Yes I can see another adjournment. To be fair to the judge, he has to make sure that all the information is available to make a judgement. At the moment the doctors view is based on second hand, at best, information so him examining Charlie in person is the best way to go.

Reposted here from the other thread

has anyone asked the CA followed what GOSH would gain from lying and manipulating this case? Do they suggest the doctors and nurses get a kick out of a small child suffering? Has any of them given a substantial answer?

The thing is how the skull is measured is absolutely key.

I imagine they will use CT/MRI imagining to get an accurate reading as that will be the only way to measure the actual skull, simply measuring head circumference with a tape measure would be pointless due to his swelling etc.

I do find it odd though that it's being reported GOSH haven't done this when it's an important part of their argument.

The big question is why he is giving evidence when he hasn't read the judgment or seen the clinical records, and admits he has made no effort to examine Charlie.

I've seen more than few comments on CA claiming that "parents own their children"

I cant see how the gards will win this. I know its gut wrenching but the best thing they can do is let charlie be free of suffering

10 minute break. Rush for the loos.

I can see the expert coming down with d&v and not being able to visit.
Really all this false hope and half truths the parents have been fed is criminal. They still don't seem to grasp what the best case actually means.

I can't my head around them shouting at the judge!

Let's hope he makes a final decision to put poor Charlie out of his misery.

From secondhand experience, being on a ventilator itself can cause irreparable damage meaning no hope.

I think it might be adjourned too for the US expert to come. I think if it is, it could be a good thing. I think, faced with Charlie's undoubted debility, he might revise his chances of 'success' downwards - and please remember, when you hear this 10-50% he is talking about Charlie maybe being able to twitch his fingers, or maybe take a breath on his own. Not talk, laugh, interact...

A few other points - the US neurologist never expected to be asked this, he will not want to come as leaving his job, practice, etc on such short notice is extremely inconvenient.
I suspect he would have treated Charlie, firstly because in America, if you have the money, you get the treatment, chances of 'success' be damned. But only if he was right in front of him. He would have been another case report to add to his experience. (I'm not intending to criticise him with this - I know how US medicine works.)
But he has never examined Charlie before, hasn't read the court report...hasn't even read Charlie's notes. He never expected to have to involve himself this deeply. He doesn't want to get this involved.

He has actually said in open court that poor Charlie is an 'experiment'

My heart is breaking for the poor baby

Would the US expert need to have a visa or work permit to examine Charlie?

Perhaps he asked if the expert would come, in order (if necessary) to explain in his judgement why he didn't - in the end - order an adjournment to allow this. So he raises it as a possibility, applies the law, and decides not to do so. So covering the 'why didn't they bring the US expert over to examine Charlie' question.

Alternatively, of course, he does allow an adjournment.

has anyone asked the CA followed what GOSH would gain from lying and manipulating this case? Do they suggest the doctors and nurses get a kick out of a small child suffering? Has any of them given a substantial answer?

They claim that it's about money and them wanting the funds raised for him on the FB page.

I think the key with the head measurements is that the family are disputing GOSH's measurements. Connie has claimed she measured herself and it was 2cm bigger than GOSH had said. Now an independent person will have to go in and measure him.

Apparently the court room is 'buzzing'

rabbitnothare thanks. I never knew some people were so dense and narrow minded...

CaveMum, is it not his skull that needs measuring? not his actual head?

Oh worse than that rabbit, I've seen some people (mainly American to be fair) claiming that they want to harvest Charlie's organs.

muckypup, you're right I should have said skull not head.

unlikely in this case. It seems likely that he'd be allowed in at the court's direction. I can't see this being a good thing, to be honest.

i.e. he is trying to find middle ground between the 2 positions, either to allow it or to specifically discount it on the grounds of what the law says.

CaveMum, I would like to know how one measures a skull to know?, I would have thought it had to be done with a scan as opposed to Connie put a tape measure round his head.