To pull someone up on their incorrect use of grammar in the classroom of children?

[biebersLadyLabyrinth]

I'm working with another TA (new to this job) until the term breaks and we're not getting on. I used to be a parent at the school and thought she didn't mind me as I wasn't a fussy parent (she's always had the reputation for being a bit scary-this said by children and parents alike but she was good to mine and our paths rarely crossed)

She's very cool with me which I can handle and furthermore if she doesn't like me no problem as long as we can get the job done.

She keeps criticising my using certain phrases like "splendid" or "Cheese and Crackers" as a child-friendly expletive even "marvellous" bothers her. This said, I've heard her over and over incorrectly speak to children. When one little boy told her his mum doesn't like him to say a phrase in that way-he was chided and told her way is perfectly ok.

I'm tempted to say something to her but worry she'll get a bit nasty.

It stand to reason that if you're only offering £12K - £14K a year for a 35 hour week you aren't going to attract well educated and well spoken candidates.

I was very lucky that most of the TAs at my DCs school were either retired teachers or professional Mums who wanted a little PT job that slotted with school hours.

Rebel I've worked with enough of them . But yes you are correct I should generalise.

I am a bit jolly hockey sticks myself op, so can sympathise! Next time something like the above interaction occurs (re:splendid), I suggest you say:

"I beg your pardon Miss Bossy, but I said this is splendid because it IS splendid! Splendid means very very good, ."

Beam at child and carefully do not look at Miss Bossy or her glare will melt your face

I would guess that she finds the way you use language to be pretentious. Perhaps it is, but if you're anything like me it's just the way you speak!! Hard to do much about it without then being accused of deliberate dumbing-down for the (logically implied to be dumb) teacher.

I think there are quite a few TAs who take the job for experience in the classroom and, despite it being low pay, are well educated and well spoken. Certainly, many are aspiring to that.

I employed a TA who was very well spoken and would have been regarded as upper class at one time. I've been involved with several who are planning to teach.

Today 15:07 BasketOfDeplorables

'I had originally intend' - get your red pen out, nina!

Ouch...

What is this red pen thing of which you speak?

OP gave us examples ofincorrect grammar - not dialect. It has no place in a classroom.

Agreed. Too many confuse the two, however, out of some form of inverted snobbery.

For what feels like the millionth time, regional dialect IS non standard vocabulary AND nonstandard grammar associated with a regional area.

So saying people are confusing regional dialect with incorrect grammar doesn't make any sense.

There are many grammatical elements of my local regional dialect that annoy me. Most of the dialect features i use are vocabulary rather than grammar, but the fact remains that no matter how irritating I find some regional grammar features, they ARE part of a regional dialect.

Accent= pronunciation
Dialect = grammar + vocabulary

It's not inverted snobbery to state the fact that dialect includes nonstandard grammar. It's a linguistic fact.

So, this is still going...
I've never know people to pull apart posts like this. Is it a normal MN thing? It has made me laugh though.
Hannah, you win the award for most unnecessary and ridiculous post...
The TAs I know and have worked with have been great.

Same alex.
I've worked with some amazing TAs and in almost every school I've worked in we've also done literacy CPD to remind people (especially support staff who don't have a set of professional standards) about the importance of modelling standard English in the classroom.
Must admit, my experience of standard English and regional language in schools has been vastly nicer than the attitudes on this thread.

I think the TA actually feels insecure and slightly threatened by the OP's superior vocabulary, so she disparages it.

It's rather a pathetic attitude to have, but it does happen a lot. I certainly see it on here all the time.

To kick or not to kick.
I'm not looking forward to tomorrow.

Her nickname is Trunchbull!

Her nickname is Trunchbull! Who says this? Honestly? I would let it all go.

Probably kids who have read Matilda..

Hehe

Maisypops...erm...how to put this nicely - you are not at school now! Just chill.

nina
It has nothing to do with me being at school so I'm not sure why that comment is even required.

I've said standard English should be taught and modelled in schools multiple times on this thread.

I'm only pointing out that dialect includes nonstandard grammar (which many posters seem to not get aka regional dialect is fine but that doesn't mean you can use incorrect grammar / people seem to be confusing dialect with incorrect grammar

It matters when people don't seem to get a fairly basic point (when amusingly it's central to their idea of their own correctness and superiority).

Obviously, the correct thing on threads like these is to ignore any fundamentally incorrect claims they make about langauge because if you do, you get accused of inverse snobbery and having a chip on your shoulder.

I think you have to be realistic. The grammar paper requires them to recognise and use standard English. It's much easier to do that if they are used to it in speech.

However, English as it is really spoken is rarely standard and always changing. Where I teach it is common to speak without verb/ tense agreement. For example "I gone there yesterday" "I done that with my friend". It's absolutely the norm and has been since the sixteenth century. As well as dropping the "he" from "the" and so on. I just draw a distinction between what we say formally and informally. The year 6 curriculum specifies this and also requires them to understand colloquial speech.

I think fostering a joy in language is paramount. It's a tool, with some rules, that should still be fun!

Orlantina, I'm baffled. You said, "Forget TAs, I worked for a head who decided to tell the children that words ending in 'ly' were adverbs."

Most adverbs ARE -ly words. It is reasonable to tell students this. Adverbs that don't end in -ly, such as "well", can be taught within the same lesson as an exception to the trend, but the fact is that many students struggle to recognize an adverb by its function within a sentence, so telling them to look out for -ly words makes a lot of sense.

MaisyPops:

I have never used a REGIONAL dialect.
So shoot me.

Nice TA bashing. I'm a TA, I have a masters degree. Two of my colleagues have PhDs. Four of them speak two or more languages fluently. Just because the pay is crap doesn't necessarily mean you end up with less educated people! I do it for the hours and the lack of stress. However back to the original point, there's really no excuse for language that's simply wrong!

nina
It doesn't make a bloody bit of difference how you speak.
Speaking with standard English grammar isn't snobby. Judging others the way people have on this thread (whilst showing a lack of understanding of what dialect is) is what's snobby.

But if it makes you feel better then yes, you speak the most correct way on earth. Dialect doesn't include grammar at all, contrary to what respected linguistics experts say. People who use any regional forms are just uneducated and need to be shown the error of their ways.

I'm actually bored of engaging with you because its becoming clear you aren't interested in an actual discussion about langauge and are just up for being patted on the back.

Most adverbs ARE -ly words. It is reasonable to tell students this

Yes - but there are many 'ly' words that aren't adverbs.

And there were many children who became convinced that any word ending in 'ly'' must be an adverb.

Wouldn't it be better to teach them how to identify an adverb in a sentence than give them incorrect information?

Exactly...

Lol at the split infinitive discussion catching out an English teacher who doesn't know what an infinitive is.

Ha Ha I'd missed that part of the discussion.