to think schools are making too many demands on parents

[rubyblue]

...for time and money. I've had three texts this week about concerts, assembly and two demands for donations towards a beach area in the playground. I'm feeling totally overwhelmed by the weekly events during the day which you're texted about and chased by the Class rep to attend I work from full time form home so I have some flexibility but it's too much. The fundraising is another issue as they are always asking but it's not for essential things like books - an outdoor beach play area is the latest. How do you cope? One Mum said she doesn't engage with it at all but I struggle with the guilt.

'I just feel that it would be unreasonable for me to complain about the work done by others when I am doing nothing myself'

And you see, this is the attitude that pisses people off and puts off volunteers.

What about the person who volunteered for several years and feel like they've done their bit?

The people who can only fit in a certain amount of volunteering per week but do it at the hospital or the residential home or the food bank?

The person crawling through each day due to circumstances you know nothing about?

It's the utter presumption that anyone who doesn't volunteer for the pta doesn't care about their child's education in some way; it's implied every time one of them says 'but surely everyone can spare a couple of hours?'

And if they're doing a shit job, alienating volunteers or organising fundraisers that cost more than they make then they shouldn't be surprised if they get some criticism from the other parents.

Some committees are fab, and some are shit. I've seen dozens and dozens over the years. FYI I was secretary while my kids went through Y1 to Y4 before passing the baton to someone else so I'm not anti PTA, just wish some of them would consider what they ask from other people, some of whom are going through tough times or genuine hardship.

It's the utter presumption that anyone who doesn't volunteer for the pta doesn't care about their child's education in some way

Not what I meant at all, but whilst we are there, if you do care you can spare a few hours, or even just one hour holding the drink stand or selling entrance ticket to whatever is going on.

What I meant is you cannot complain about the PTA events etc from the comfort of your sofa. It's very easy to criticise from the outside, but maybe they would do a better job if they had more volunteers and more resources.

What I hate is the assumption that people who are volunteering (PTA or others) have nothing but free time, have no life/work/commitments and are ladies who lunch who kill time at the PTA between 2 hairdresser appointment. There might be a few desperate housewives, but they are also many working parents just as busy as you or I.

I read some parents comments this year telling the PTA that they did this wrong they did that wrong, to someone who had just spent hours and hours organising/pleading for volunteers and ended up raising a very impressive amount of money on a specific event. Bloody cheek!

It's one thing to be unable to join in, but it takes some nerves to stay well away of the hard work to pop up with unhelpful criticism after the event. Of course things aren't perfect, but expecting 2 or 3 people (over 3 x 30 parents for 1 year!) to do miracles is taking the piss.

Yes, I could do an hour manning the drink stand. Or I could spend an hour with my children. The rest of the week, I'm working. And caring for my dementia ridden mum. And my children spend time at their dad's so actually, when we have an hour free together, I am not doing something else.

But the main reason I don't PTA volunteer - and why I will never volunteer - is because of people like you who are unable to recognise that caring about our children and their education doesn't mean we have to make a big, public fucking show of it.

As if it's not enough that we pay for school dinners (after KS1), uniforms, school trips and non uniform days

Did you not expect to feed and clothe your child? It's no one else's responsibility. Trips and non uniform are optional, join in if you way or opt out if not. Trips have always happened in schools.

because of people like you who are unable to recognise that caring about our children and their education doesn't mean we have to make a big, public fucking show of it.

Again, you misread my post, I AM NOT VOLUNTEERING FOR THE PTA MYSELF! I have done a few hours here and there, selling ticket to one of the cinema party for example but I am not involved.

My point was that it's not on to refuse to be involved but find time to criticise the volunteers and what they are doing.

No one is asking you to make a show of your children. It would be kind to acknowledge that people who are as busy as you take time to try to improve things for your children and mine. Whilst you and I are on MN, another parent is putting the final touch for the school fair/prom/uniform sale etc.

Refusing to volunteer because you don't want to put yourself in the limelight? Seriously, are you 12?

Yanbu

I got a phone call this morning from a pta member who I have never met in ny life , passed on from school , asking if I could make samosas or curry in aid of a concert on Friday.

I hear you OP. I wished they just asked for a lump sum upfront (voluntary of course) it would alleviate the guilt and time/anxiety of trying to keep up with sahm's

Trips aren't really optional if they support the curriculum.

Non uniform days aren't really optional unless you want your child standing out like a sore thumb.

But nobody here is really objecting to feeding or clothing their child, the odd fundraiser for a good cause or trip arranged with plenty of notice.

What many people do object to is last minute financial shocks, badly planned clusters of events and events that lose more than they make.

And if thoughtless schools or shit PTAs insist on doing the above then they're going to get criticised no matter how unjust they think it is - petty nitpicking of minor issues is churlish and unnecessary but genuine concerns are fair enough.

And when I was on the PTA all were welcome but there was never any criticism or snideyness directed at non participants because you dont bloody know what those people's lives are like.

It's all in your head. All anyone is asking is that you do what you can. I make a lump sum donation at the beginning of school year then don't stress about all the little things. If my son wants to donate to the little things, that's fine but he is fully aware that we have already made a substantial contribution.
I don't do bake sales or collections, I do organise one sports event and one fundraiser (from the sanctuary of my home)

By the way I don't understand why you are frothing about the creation of a beach rather than books. Beaches are magical. Learning is not confined to the pages of a book, what a very old fashioned notion.

One year our P5 class ran out of paper.

The summer fete, our biggest earner of the years, happens through the Parent Council only, with very little help from the staff, same with Christmas discos and sports day.

The school only has computers and iPads because of the PC. It only has playground equipment because of the PC.

I'm very sorry that us asking you for £2 here and there is so onerous, but if we didn't the kids would have fuck all to look forward to.

And I work full time as well as being part of the PC; I actually don't really have the time for it, and I have to use up my annual leave to do sports day etc, but when there are 200+ parents and only 8 of us willing to be on the PC, what's the choice?

So you fulfil the brief of asking for reasonable amounts, thoughtfully spaced, for useful purchases? And do so without making anyone feel bad for not being able to help?

Well then nobody here is moaning about you are they.

'And I work full time as well as being part of the PC; I actually don't really have the time for it, and I have to use up my annual leave to do sports day etc, but when there are 200+ parents and only 8 of us willing to be on the PC, what's the choice?'

Lucky you don't also have a second job or a debilitating illness or volunteering duties elsewhere or a new baby or caring responsibilities for a sick parent or a business to run or are dealing with something huge and all consuming that surprisingly shuffles the pta to the bottom of your list of priorities.

Thank god those other 192 idle wasters have got you multitasking, telling them how lucky they are and just generally demonstrating how it's possible to work full time and also volunteer on the pta.

There have been years where I wish our pta would just add up how much they raise annually and divide that between each parent before disbanding; id pay twice just to get certain smug pta mafia out of my face.

My point was that it's not on to refuse to be involved but find time to criticise the volunteers and what they are doing

And yet you are happy to criticise me and my reasons for not volunteering.

And no, fuck all to do with limelight and everything to do with constant judgements about who/what/where I am. I don't have to explain myself to a bunch of women who think it fine to make comments - just like you have done - about myself and my circumstances. Hilariously, I am a teacher and do way more for your children (often at the expense of my own) than so many are able to understand. To the point where I have previously been questioned about how much sleep I need and how,I have the weekend to relax afterwards. Pathetic.

My children go private so I already pay 10k a year plus £100s in donations. We finished school on Friday and in the final 2 weeks of term we had 9 events to attend!! 9!! But I am happy with this because my children are getting the most wonderful and enriching education from absolutely dedicated teachers. YABU

Well if you have the luxury of choosing your child's school you can't really complain can you; you chose them.

Some of us have next to no choice.

And yet you are happy to criticise me and my reasons for not volunteering.

ahem, nope, as a non-volunteer myself, I would hardly be in position to do that.I hope you are not a teacher in real life if you cannot even read a paragraph.

All I was criticising is the attitude of so many parents, who refuse to be involved, being so important and so busy, but are happy to smugly criticise the volunteers. If you think you can do better, by all means, do. If you have better ideas, why don't you put them forward?

If you were a teacher, you would see how badly the funds are missing and what the local parents brings to the school.

I don't see what's problematic about saying if you can't or don't wish to help with the voluntary work of the PTA then don't complain about it.
We never know what's going on in other people's lives and I am sure lots of people have compelling reasons not to help but plenty also just cannot be arsed and think of plugging the funding gaps as someone else's problem.
In my school it's the same 6 people in our year group who everything. We have 60 kids in each year and I doubt every one of the 100 parents who do nothing have unavoidable commitments at all times.

I don't know what's so problematic with saying that schools should be considerate when planning events.

If your pta or school spread requests for time and money considerately throughout the year, give sufficient notice of such requests, ensure that events raise more than they cost and that fundraisers are for things that benefit every pupil - well then, you're doing a great job and nobody here is complaining.

Are defensive posters really defending their pta's/school's right to ask for cash or time at short notice and in thoughtless clusters?

If you're doing a crap job then people will criticise. If you're doing a great job, they won't. You're not immune to criticism just because you give your time for free. In fact, listen to the criticism, ignoring pointless sniping, because you might learn something that will improve participation in future.

'I don't see what's problematic about saying if you can't or don't wish to help with the voluntary work of the PTA then don't complain about it.'

So people can't complain about stuff unless they're willing to affect change from be inside? I'd better get a job for the Tory party or the Daily Mail. What a lot of precious nonsense. Are you saying that a pta can do anything then? Literally beyond reproach in all things?

'but plenty also just cannot be arsed and think of plugging the funding gaps as someone else's problem'

No, they pick up on that sense of superiority and want no part of it.

Its the lack of organisation and last minute information from the school that makes my life difficult. DS is on a trip today. They were due back at 530. He is year 3. He usually eats dinner at 5-530 but I thought he could manage a late meal as a one off.
Got a text yesterday afternoon saying they were now due back at 630! No further info. I don't know if I should pack extra food for a late snack? Will there be anywhere to store it? Will they let him eat it? This is an sen class, and changes of routine are v hard for the children, so missing a meal will be a huge deal.
And, I have to be at a different school at 630 for my dd. I've no idea how I'm going to sort this one!
Changing the time with only 24 hours to go is just inconsiderate and shows that he school think we all have nothing better to do than sit around waiting for their instructions

Parents being asked to be involved in their children's education, go to the school sometimes and contribute financially. What is the world coming to? What did you expect when you had children op? School gates that opened, children that were waved through and never seen again? School that magically sorted everything without you ever having yo do anything than get your child dressed in the morning?
I work too. But my children's school is a school not childcare. Sometimes I can't attend events and its s great shame. I talk to my children about it and the advantages they get by my working.
But then I don't get dressed by a few emails, donation requests or other comma from the school

Are defensive posters really defending their pta's/school's right to ask for cash or time at short notice and in thoughtless clusters?
If you're doing a crap job then people will criticise.

As I wrote above, I do hate last minute requests. The point is that the PTA would probably be more organised if they had more volunteers! They wouldn't do such a "crap job" if there were more parents involved. If you would do better, what are you waiting for? What have you suggested?

My numbers were wrong in my earlier post, most pupils having 2 parents, it's 3 classes x 60 parents worth would could be helping! No one expect them to treat the PTA and their kids school as a full time job, and a group needs to be there all year for consistency and organising, but the numbers of helpers are bad enough. Moaning is not helping.

If you only have a handful of parents will full time jobs, a family to take care off, yes they might be disorganised. It must be so disheartening to do your best to be confronted with a bunch of superior individuals coming to look down and criticise all the time. I wish I could help more, but at least I don't insult them! They already more organised than you if they manage to free some time to help.

I wished they just asked for a lump sum upfront (voluntary of course) it would alleviate the guilt and time/anxiety of trying to keep up with sahms

From what I've seen it's the wohp that are the most organised when it comes to school to school stuff so no reason to feel guilty.

Our entire pta is made up of purely working parents at both schools.