Charlie Gard Case 5

[LovelyBath77]

A new thread to follow on from the others about this case.

To be fair, Umpteen, it's a "normal" pronunciation in Scotland (if you're a bit... you know).

There was a charity stand collecting for GOSH in a shop I went into earlier. Lovely elderly man, made a fuss over my toddler when we gave a donation. I really hope nobody gives him any grief today.

Has anyone seen other relatives at his bedside - grandparents and the like? I haven't seen anything about other relatives (I may be wrong though). Surely if the judge is going to rule soon they would be there getting ready to say goodbye, especially if the judge orders within 24 hours (which he may do after the last time and the additional delays that have been caused).
I just wonder if that will be another reason for them to want to delay things, to get all the family together

MRIs are safe (so long as you don't walk in the room holding a bunch of keys or other metal object) they do not emit radiation unlike CTs and X rays

Do the parents not have one single, logical, rational family member who will step in to try and calm things?
Because as I see it now, once the inevitable judgement is made tomorrow, time will be very limited. Baby Charlie is clearly dying, given the horrific oedema he now has. And if the parents are still as whipped up and angry and aggressive tomorrow, there is a very real possibility that they won't be allowed near any staff who will have to undertake the process of withdrawing ventilation ( it's not just a case of flipping a switch) Why can CA not see that?

Has anyone seen other relatives at his bedside - grandparents and the like?

No but Catherine Glenn Foster has had her photo taken with him.

This is the issue isn't it, if the judge keeps his ruling the fallout for GOSH will be huge.

Those poor poor parents, i saw them on Victoria Derbyshire ages ago and i saw their point that listing it at court as GOSH & Charlie Gard vs Connie & Chris is wrong. I don't feel entirely comfortable with that, but equally i think we need trained people to step in.

We quite rightly aren't allowed to do what the hell we like to/ with our kids, so this is an extension of that.

Just to make this thread a little bit more heart warming.
A user ( will not say who as she might not want to be named ) contacted a memever she knew spoke to me away from mumsnet and sent her money for my me and my DD for her to give to us.
Thankyou, we honestly would never ask or accept if it had been direct and no way was hinting for anyone to help us out.
Was purely putting insight in.
Thankyou from the bottom of our hearts x

Restores faith in human nature lonely. That's lovely - whoever you were!

Question on British law procedure (vs US). Here pretty much everything is technically appealable. You are entitled to file an appeal, even if the result is that the appellate court decides to dismiss it. Then you can file more appeals on the dismissal basically up to the Supreme Court. Is the same true in the UK? If Mr Justice Francis determines there is no new evidence submitted, can the parent's legal team file an appeal basically saying "Yes there is, someone else needs to look at this" (basically to try and buy time)? I mean, at what point in procedure can it be ruled 'enough, no more'.

I haven't looked at any of the CA FB pages. I admit I'm often tempted by some of the things people have repeated on here, but I'm afraid I'd end up with a massive headache from the stupidity and ignorance.

Charlie remains in the care of GOSH because the courts said he should. That's why he didn't go home and the correct care could not be provided at home.

I am not sure if I said this way upthread, but in complex cases like this, a child who cannot participate in the court proceedings, is given a "Guardian" to look after their interests. There are three elements in the case: the parents, GOSH and Charlie. As a human being he has rights in court and they are not overlooked. This is where the parents are having difficulty because they believe they have sole rights in court but they don't. Their stand off with GOSH has been going on for months.

It is plainly evident the parents want what is best for them. That is why their child has a Guardian in court, so that his rights are upheld. It is to ensure his needs are paramount. Not any other hospital and not any other doctors who have not treated him or parents who will not accept expert advice if it is contrary to their beliefs. The court will look at all the evidence but it will be interesting to see if the parents are given leave to appeal again if (and when) the judgement goes against them. Appealing a judgement is not a right. Hopefully they will not be given leave to appeal and this terrible circus ends in the near future.

Lonely, i hope today has gone well

What a lovely mnetter

And multiple messages calling Katie Gallop as cunt

Ive name changed to say this but I'm a solicitor and have personally worked with Katie Gollop.

She is fabulous, sharp, compassionate, diligent. I would hope she just lets it roll off her back. I cant imagine her being bothered by the mob

If the judge rules there is no new evidence, I believe that's it. It can't be appealed because there is nothing to appeal - the ruling is what it was previously, as upheld by the supreme court, appeal court, european court, uncle Tom Cobbley and all. If there was new evidence that he rejected, then there could have been grounds to appeal depending on what the position was.

Can they appeal after tomorrow if it doesn't go their way? Surely even those deluded people can see that dragging this on and on will do no good to anyone - even the frothing idiots in the CA?

The parents ask for an appeal to the Court of Appeal. (Next court up from the High Court). There are a number of tests the Court of Appeal applies to see if it will allow the appeal or not. They then tell the parents of the decision and why they have not allowed the appeal if that is the case. If they allow the appeal, court time is allocated and it is heard.

Lonely what a heartwarming story - thanks for sharing.
Hope things are going ok

That's so lovely, Lonely. It's so reassuring to know that there are kind and gentle people in this world, isn't it?

Perhaps when this madness regarding Charlie is all over, his parents may consider creating a charity or trust with some of that £1.5M to provide practical help to parents like Lonely. Small grants for meals, rooms, or help with transport home and back for parents with ill children and limited resources. I'm sure RMHouse could help them with setting it up or earmarking it and administrating it under their banner.

Top post (a tweet) on the .CA fb page says expert doctors have evidence he can be helped... any foundation in this tweet? (Posted by Laura Gard)

I suspect not. The ruling tomorrow is about whether anything has changed since the last set of rulings. If the judge says that there is no new evidence to consider/change the viewpoint that will be it. You cant appeal the fact that there is no new evidence to change the judgment.

Every decision makes a precedent and I dont think you can have one that means you are in effect appealing and appealing and appealing. You have to have a basis for appealing and not liking the judgment is not sufficient. The appeal would have been allowed last time because it would have been felt necessary to go as high up as required but if nothing has changed, nothing will change.

Interestingly though even though it is down as versus its always said as and. So it Gosh (&Charlie Gard) and Connie (& Chris (as its a civil case for criminal its against).(UK anyway)

This has been said publicly by a student nurse currently in an English hospital.

I actually feel like sending this to her hospital.

Bubbles but isn't this simply an application to vary the order, which order has already been confirmed by the higher courts? If the judge decides not to vary, on the grounds (as seems likely) that there is no new evidence of substance to warrant a variation, then I don't see what there is to appeal.

Like others I sent GOSH a message of support and received a lovely reply back. I'm sure there are more people who support the hospital than are against them even though there are a small group of ignorant people who don't appreciate the work that the staff do every day for the children they treat and for their parents and carers.

Cross posted with Quartz.

What expert doctors? This is the big issue! Do they have all his medical records? Do these doctors know his exact case or are they just offering an ill informed opinion? The parents are clutching at non existent straws! It's very tragic.