To think there's too many women on Mn living their lives with utter fuckwits?

[ssd]

I know its never easy and theres no one size fits all. I know some women live in fear for their lives or their childs lives. I know many women are financially dependant on their men. I know its easy to look on and shake my head

BUT BUT BUT.... sometimes on here I want to scream...why put up with that? why put up with utter shite?

dont let him away with it FFS

and I'm not talking about the heart rending posts from terrified or browbeaten women living in bad bad relationships, I'm talking about the everyday bollocks a lot of women seem to live with

dh isnt perfect and god help us neither am I, but fuck me, some of the threads on here are beyond belief

JustAnotherPoster00 Only one poster has written about moving in with a partner who treated their child badly. That person happened to be a man - he placed more importance on the needs of his penis than his child - suck it up.

Rorty 2 things, re-read his post and take your head for a wobble, dont give a shit which order you do it in

Nope. he is describing how the step mother treats the son, before going on to then deescribe the actions of his mother.

Likewise.

And fuck off with the PA smilies

Societal expectations are massively to blame for the piss-poor relationships that lots of people are happy to remain in. Let me make it clear that I'm not talking about abusive relationships, I am talking about the ones that litter this forum just lately. The ones about men who can't look after their own children, who can't cook a meal, who do nothing in the home, who don't know how to operate the washing machine, etc. These threads, without fail, turn into pages and pages of other women agreeing. Rolling their eyes and giggling about how men just don't see the dirt and how you spend time teaching them to cook and leave them detailed notes explaining how to parent their own children for an hour. Why? Who raised these women to believe that that was all they could expect from an adult relationship? Who is conditioning them to accept these things as normal?

Of all of my friends partners, I don't think I can think of one who adequately pulls his weight, nor one household that doesn't split the tasks into "man jobs" (garden, car, diy) and "woman jobs" (everything else). It is depressing.

"Haha, silly men, they don't see dirt"

Umm yeah. Makes me feel very lonely tbh when they start with that.

It certainly is depressing. How did we get here though?

It's much more pervasive on MN than it used to be. I struggle to think of a recent thread where a poster has vented that her male partner doesn't do x, y or z and many many responses will advise the OP how she can teach him to do x, y and z by means of notes, cooking lessons, practical demonstrations etc. The mind boggles.

For many, they seem to think it's unacceptable being single so would rather have any man than be alone

I disagree that this is true of many women.

All the posters on here who are criticising women for being with abusive partners should read up on Domestic Abuse, it's a real eye opener.

The men who abuse are initially charming, so a woman hasn't a clue what's to come. Think psychopath characteristics.

Experts agree that the victim never asks for or causes domestic abuse. The abuser tears down the victim's self esteem gradually over time to gain control over them. They may convince the victim that she deserves the abuse or provoked it in some way, causing the abuser to "lose control". This represents a classic control tactic of abusers – convincing the victim that they cause the violence and bring it upon themselves. Victims do not cause the abuse; the abuser is in complete control of his or her behaviour.

Gonzo, your poor boy . I hope you are good to him and make up for these crap women in his life.

Is the need to have more children more important than who you have them with.

I don't think it's a biological urge for many. Lots believe a baby will fix a poor relationship, will keep the man there, is a way out of working etc so procreating is very casual to many.

I never thought my x could be changed but nor did i realise he was as awful as he would turn out to be. There was a voice in my head saying have a baby now because that is not something that can be sorted out 'later'. Everything else, that can be fixed later. Some of this was conscious some of it was unconscious. I did not know at the time that i had a very low self-esteem. I did not really understand what self esteem was as i was outgoing and sociable and i mistook that for the confidence that comes from real self-esteem. In some ways ive paid a high price for my low self-esteem back then. I have 100% responsibility for dc and no breaks. I'm single, largely because i have no freedom. But on the otherhand, i have learnt a lot. Im more self-awar than my married parents who raised me to be A Nice Girl with no needs, my self-esteem is repaired. I'm beginning to feel free as much as 'single'. DC and I are more than just ok.

But if you had judged my life at a certain point you would have been entitled to judge me for breeding with an arsehole. It was a snapshot in my life.

Yes i wish women had a higher bar but before you berate a woman for having a low bar, consider what privileges in your own life sent you out in to the wide world knowing that you were a valuable person.

"For many, they seem to think it's unacceptable being single so would rather have any man than be alone. For others, they opted out of working and end up with no means to support themselves. A few don't want to share custody so won't leave.

For men, they know walking away usually means a lot of time without their children as there are lots of females who can be the bad partner as well."

So men dont want to walk away because they care about their children and dont want to be without them and women dont walk away because they dont want to be single?

So how do you square this circle with the fact that widowERS remarry much quicker than widows do?!

Yeh good point. I think women are made feel guiltier and made feel selfish for "breaking up the family" but after they've got through the adjustment to singlehood they are much less likely to just marry again.

For men, they know walking away usually means a lot of time without their children as there are lots of females who can be the bad partner as well."

For women, they know walking away can often mean their ex will move in with an OW, have more babies and disappear from their children's lives, and the women are left to deal with their children's sense of abandonment by the ex. You read it on here all the time.

@TinselTwins

re @notknownatthisaddress comments.......
The only women I have known who are divorced/separated, are struggling to survive, and are certainly not 'having a wonderful life.'

This is sadly very very true in the case of my friends and acquaintances.

women I know who did LTB are either:
- heavily HEAVILY dependant on their own parents, often having to live with them, and have their parents who thought they'd be enjoying their retirement by now doing school runs etc so that they can keep their jobs. Sometimes the relationship isn't that great but they're out of options and have to "suck it up" and be grateful, even though they're uncomfortable with some of the ways the grandparents are "parenting" their child, and psychologically, living with mum and dad is not how they imagined adult life would go.
- struggling to get back into the workforce even years after splitting due to childcare / work hours issues.
being treated like bottom dwellers by estate agent who put 2 income couples at the top of the list everytime a property comes up
- finding themselves starting totally from scratch job/career wise because of their employment gap.
- in shitty dives with shitty neighbours and shitty landlords and having no hope in hell of getting anywhere close to their previous standard of living as a single person.
- fighting with their child every week/weekend, who either doesn't want to go to dad's house, or who doesn't want to come back from dad's house

Brilliant post and I could not agree more with it!

@juicynectarine

I am single, I am divorced. I live in a nice area in an expensive city and life is pretty good. It can be a bit lonely but not as lonely as being married to a shithead was!
I have a few friends who are single divorced mothers, all managing life well, we support each other and have different situations with our dc but none fit into your destitute list and all are happier.

@memyselfandaye

Notknown I've only ever been a single parent, I work in a job I've had for 20yrs, not a career, but decent paying job. I certainly didn't spend my 20's and 30's in a skyscraper either.
You make out being a single Mother is all grunt work and misery, it isn't. My son has a great life, so do I.
This is why I posted about women going back to work after mat leave, and both parents saving for childcare costs before they have kids. In my opinion it's essential to have your own seperate savings. Money gives you options.

Absolutely 100 million per cent brilliant for you both. Sounds like you have been incredibly fortunate. You are the exception rather than the rule though, and I can assure you it's not like this for most women who split from their husband. Indeed much of what Tinsel said, (and what I said on page 4 of this thread,) is more likely a scenario than the ones you two describe.

You are either incredibly lucky and fortunate, (if as a single mother, you are able to live in a 'nice area in an expensive city,' and are able to keep your career going and squirrel away loads in savings!) OR you come from a privileged background, and either had a DH who was wealthy, or a family who is. I can tell you though that there would be more women living in penury after leaving their husband, than women who are living in a cool apartment in Notting Hill, with a well paid /professional job and shit loads of surplus income.

In my experience, the fuck wit behaviour increased over time. When I met DC Dad, he probably was a bit of a fuck wit, but in all honestly, so was I. We were both 20 and didn't know any better. However after I had DS1 at 22 and DS2 at 25, I grew up pretty quickly, whereas he didn't.

The smoking a bit of weed, which seemed ok at 20, turned into smoking weed every day.. and that's not ok with 2 small children.

Being a bit possessive which I thought was quite sweet and romantic initially, turned into full on jealousy and controlling behaviour.

Being a bit messy and unorganised turned into doing nothing round the house.

But when all this happens gradually over time and you're knee deep in toddlers, you don't really notice what's happened, it just becomes normal.

It's only when you do manage to leave you can look back and see what was really going on.

Luckily for me I was really fortunate in that my parents were able to help out with the children and financially. Lots of women aren't so fortunate. It really isn't that easy.

This is so complicated. I agree that my jaw drops when I read about what some people put up with.

But it's not that simple. My husband is ok but he isn't perfect. Some of the things he has said and done would make others jaws drop if I described them on here. Such as leaving me without even a text, packing up his stuff while I was at work. Came home to a half empty house and him gone. Why would I take him back after that? Also he is pretty grumpy and can be mean.

But - most of the time we just get on with our lives and we are happy. It honestly sucked being single. It was boring and lonely. I've tried online dating, meet ups, classes, etc. It is really hard to meet someone. It's hard to even meet friends, and believe me, I've tried.

I'm 33 and I want children. I know parenthood is terrible and all, but it's still something I want. So I'm prepared to put up with a pretty average man in order to have company and a chance of a kid. It's hard to admit all this. I fully admit I am pathetic! I think a lot of women feel like I do.