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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there's too many women on Mn living their lives with utter fuckwits?

145 replies

ssd · 10/07/2017 19:46

I know its never easy and theres no one size fits all. I know some women live in fear for their lives or their childs lives. I know many women are financially dependant on their men. I know its easy to look on and shake my head

BUT BUT BUT.... sometimes on here I want to scream...why put up with that? why put up with utter shite?

dont let him away with it FFS

and I'm not talking about the heart rending posts from terrified or browbeaten women living in bad bad relationships, I'm talking about the everyday bollocks a lot of women seem to live with

dh isnt perfect and god help us neither am I, but fuck me, some of the threads on here are Shock Angry beyond belief

OP posts:
TinselTwins · 10/07/2017 23:37

But what you think is just a shit relationship might actually be abuse

It might
Or
It might be a 2 way shit relationship.

Some people have real "need to be needed" complexes, and will refuse help in order to (in their mind) make themselves indispensable… they put the pressure of carrying the biggest load on themselves then occasionally implode and have a rant about "being the one who does it all"

TinselTwins · 10/07/2017 23:39

I agree, I hope a lot of those threads are just trolls because I just don't understand why you see your new bloke treating your child from a previous relationship like shit then go on to have kids with him. I've seen so many threads like that over the years

THIS I just can't understand!

I could never find someone who didn't like my child attractive!

OlennasWimple · 10/07/2017 23:41

memyselfandaye - DH and I have completely shared finances except that I also have a bank account that is solely mine, just in case I ever need to go. DH really dislikes that I have it (we are very happily married and I have never needed to think about using it, fortunately) but it's something I will tell DD and DS to do as well: always have access to money that is just yours

JuicyNectarine · 10/07/2017 23:44

ime there is no one around when you are actually being abused. Friends seem to prefer to side with the abuser. In reality most think it can't really be happening to someone they know.

This, in spades. Abusers isolate their victims, gaslight them to make them question themselves, provoke them to make them appear emotional to others etc. What someone is posting on here is what is happening very much behind closed doors. Living with someone who can switch between personalities as easily as turning a light on or off is a deeply destabilising isolating experience.

The internet is brilliant, finally all of these people caught up in the long con that is an abusive relationship have somewhere safe to ask "is this normal?", somewhere away from their abuser's influence, somewhere impartial.

TinselTwins · 10/07/2017 23:44

financial independence = freedom, freedom to leave the bastards if need be or to cope with widowhood!

SaveMeBarry · 10/07/2017 23:51

Some people have real "need to be needed" complexes, and will refuse help in order to (in their mind) make themselves indispensable… they put the pressure of carrying the biggest load on themselves then occasionally implode and have a rant about "being the one who does it all"

I think this is very true but IMO this is because they measure their value as a person by how good a mother they are. And where did the pick up that message from?

I've more than once gently encouraged friends/colleagues when expecting their first child to ensure they don't walk zombie like into a situation where they take on the lions share of responsibility for children and home. They might not mind when on maternity leave but I always think picture yourself five years down the line with a school age child and possibly a toddler and a full time job, will you mind then?

TinselTwins · 10/07/2017 23:58

I think this is very true but IMO this is because they measure their value as a person by how good a mother they are. And where did the pick up that message from?

I don't agree that it starts at motherhood, I've had houseshares with people like this (male and female)

e.g. wipes down the whole kitchen twice a day and is a self proclaimed "clean freak" - so nobody else ever cleans the kitchen because it's always already clean, then has a tantrum about how they're the only one that cleans the kitchen. I do my share of cleaning but I don't see the point in cleaning a cupboard door for a third time on any given day.

Or

The friend who always does things for others that nobody asked them to do, then every now and then has a tanty that they're "the one who is always doing everything for everyone".

SaveMeBarry · 11/07/2017 00:03

Oh I'm sure Tinsel but I still think that this tends to be about their upbringing. I have a single, no dc friend with imo a ridiculously over developed sense of responsibility but I can see that this is because she was brought up in a household where everyone else's needs were more important than hers and she was conditioned to be the helpful, reliable, considerate one. That's when she was noticed and what got her parental approval. I think we're all a product of our upbringing.

memyselfandaye · 11/07/2017 00:04

I do think a lot of those types of threads are bullshit though, quite a lot have been deleted recently, the latest one with the kid and the car door has gone poof for being a pbp.

The ones that start off with him being an arsehole, then evolve so you're thinking he's a twat why do you put up with it? Then the story grows and he's a violent bastard who should be in jail, you do stop and think is this for real or just a bored fucker with no imagination?

It's hard to tell what's real and what's a fairy tale.

RortyCrankle · 11/07/2017 00:32

You're quite right OP. So many threads by women describing what awful men they and their children put up with and then go on to say but he's lovely and a great dad. How the hell is he lovely? It does my head in. Nor do I understand why they continue to have children, despite knowing how totally useless the man is, making the logistics of leaving harder with each one.

Then there are those who will put up with virtually any crap from their partners because as far as they are concerned, ANYTHING is better than not having a man in their lives, no matter how awful or useless. It's desperately sad.

Sometimes it seems some just do not recognise how bad things are. I recall one woman who queried if her DH's actions were normal. What she described was atrocious, controlling, financially and every other way, pressurising her to have another child when she didn't want one, refusing to allow her to work etc and it took three threads of people saying that it was not normal or acceptable, that it was really very bad and she just couldn't see it. Eventually she began to understand and left him.

I think it's tragic that some women set their bar so low. I'm not victim blaming but I am saying that if women set their expectations higher, then hopefully less would get trapped in these ghastly relationships in the first place.

Memyselfandaye I so agree with your point about women being financially self sufficient. I think it's crucial.

Notknownatthisaddress · 11/07/2017 00:39

A similar thread was running about a week ago, and I posted quite a long post on it that is pretty apt here. This is what I said on that thread about women staying in relationships with men, when the relationship AND the man is perhaps not so great...

---------------------------------

Although MN is great, and women do support each other (amongst the spats!) they are too quick to say leave the bastard! Sometimes for very petty things. I mean, even if he is just a sulky git sometimes, who goes silent for an afternoon when he can't get his own way, or if he doesn't do the washing up (ever!) or he watches too much crap reality tv! They say LEAVE.

It's just not that easy. Where are you meant to go? And how are you meant to survive financially? Unless you are a professional, or at the top of your career ladder on 50K plus, you are going to be living on or below the poverty line as a single woman/single mother.

Not all of us spent our 20's and early 30's working in skyscrapers in central London on 40-50K, and many women don't have the ability to earn more than minimum wage. Many women would seriously compromise their lifestyle if they decided to go it alone, and often, tolerating a partner who is a bit of a dick sometimes, who is clingy, who noses at your texts, who watches too much sport, and who doesn't do much housework is preferable to a life of penury.

There have been a few threads on here over the past few weeks from women saying they are fed up of their partner/husband, for one reason or another, and most of the reasons were fairly trivial and resolvable. With counselling and talking to them and communicating, the relationship could probably be salvaged, yet people just say LEAVE. NOW.

Like I said, leave and go where? Bunk down on your adult children's floor? Kip on a mate's couch? (while the kids sleep in the garden shed!) Go into b & b? Go into expensive and transient private let? (If you're not on benefits! Because many landlords won't accept benefit tenants.)

Now of course if there is bad abuse, physical/mental etc and you and your kids are in danger, then you must seek help. But you will need to report it, and involve the police and social services and the C A B etc, otherwise you won't get the support.

When women are beaten and threatened by their partner, it does piss me off when people suggest someone 'just leaves' when they have a partner who's just a bit of an arse!

'Get your ducks in a row, get your paperwork in order, and get a full time job, be self sufficient, and independent.' Like it's THAT easy.

And all the women suggesting this, have always had an EX who was a bit of a dick. No-one ever admits they are still with someone like that. And every single one says their life is wonderful now they have left their clingy moaning DH. I am not sure I believe it to be honest. The only women I have known who are divorced/separated, are struggling to survive, and are certainly not 'having a wonderful life.'

Even women who don't have kids at home anymore find it hard to leave, because they have often been with the husband for 25-35 years or more, they have a whole lifetime together, lots of joint finances together, extended family together, and grandchildren, etc. And the woman who has spent much of her adult life raising the kids and looking after the family and home, has very little - or no ability to go out and get a well paid full time job with enough of a salary to sustain a place of her own, and maintain her current lifestyle.

TinselTwins · 11/07/2017 00:58

The only women I have known who are divorced/separated, are struggling to survive, and are certainly not 'having a wonderful life.'

This is sadly very very true in the case of my friends and acquaintances.

women I know who did LTB are either:

  • heavily HEAVILY depenant on their own parents, often having to live with them, and have their parents who thought they'ld be enjoying their retirement by now doing school runs etc so that they can keep their jobs. Sometimes the relationship isn't that great but they're out of options and have to "suck it up" and be grateful, even though they're uncomfortable with some of the ways the grandparents are "parenting" their child, and psychologically, living with mum and dad is not how they imagined adult life would go.
  • strugging to get back into the workforce even years after splitting due to childcare / work hours issues.
  • being treated like bottom dwellers by estate agent who put 2 income couples at the top of the list everytime a property comes up
  • finding themselves starting totally from scratch job/career wise because of their employment gap
  • in shitty dives with shitty neighbours and shitty landlords and having no hope in hell of getting anywhere close to their previous standard of living as a single person.
  • fighting with their child every week/weekend, who either doesn't want to go to dad's house, or who doesn't want to come back from dad's house
TinselTwins · 11/07/2017 01:03

Which is probably why, after LingTB (no1) and struggling with hopeless financial and housing and work situations as a single mother, a good few of them have set up house with an even bigger B than Bno1!

I can see the appeal of getting out of a shitty damp bedsit/1bed with your kid, and how tempting it is to dive head first into co-habiting with the next person you get into a relationship would be if it gives a glimpse of having a proper family home again and a bit of a normal adult life….

JuicyNectarine · 11/07/2017 01:07

Hmm I am single, I am divorced. I live in a nice area in an expensive city and life is pretty good. It can be a bit lonely but not as lonely as being married to a shithead was!

I have a few friends who are single divorced mothers, all managing life well, we support each other and have different situations with our dc but none fit into your destitute list and all are happier Grin

memyselfandaye · 11/07/2017 01:10

Notknown I've only ever been a single parent, I work in a job I've had for 20yrs, not a career, but decent paying job. I certainly didn't spend my 20's and 30's in a skyscraper either.

You make out being a single Mother is all grunt work and misery, it isn't. My son has a great life, so do I.

This is why I posted about women going back to work after mat leave, and both parents saving for childcare costs before they have kids. In my opinion it's essential to have your own seperate savings. Money gives you options.

TinselTwins · 11/07/2017 01:17

In this area it's hard enough (and expensive enough) to find somewhere decent to rent if you're a 2 income couple (which estate agents prefer)

if you're a single income parent at the lower end of the market, you don't even get to view the more habitable flats and get tossed the mouldy (literally) crumbs that nobody else wants

I've supported a few friends through this post break up and seen how differently they were treated as single mothers Vs when they were in a couple by EAs/LLs first hand! It's dehumanising.

The only way to get a half decent flat in the lower ends of the market as a single mum from what I can see from friends experiences is to get int there before it goes to the EAs - i.e. know someone who is moving out and get them to recommend you directly to their LL.

EverythingUnderTheSun · 11/07/2017 01:24

Rorty I think it's tragic that some women set their bar so low. I'm not victim blaming but I am saying that if women set their expectations higher, then hopefully less would get trapped in these ghastly relationships in the first place.

I think the most we can hope for is that women realise sooner. The men don't start off as complete bastards, it's step by step. The woman's confidence is eroded gradually over time so she blames herself, and cultural narratives about nagging wives and expecting men to be useless at housework/childcare, and needing sex and so on, all feed into the massive doubt and conviction it's her fault somehow. It's hard to explain but when you finally leave because something has definitely crossed the line (eg. repeated physical violence) you look back and realise just how much was wrong, stuff you hadn't even thought about and just accepted as "normal".

I think the way people get all coupley asap (ime) rather than having some independence and keeping former friendships going doesn't help. I'm of the age where most people seem to be paired off but most don't have children yet - and seriously it's like a couple get together then disappear! Which puts more pressure on the relationship/makes it harder to leave, people lose their support network and all emotional needs are met (or not) by their partner... as well as creating a situation socially where it's harder to be single.

GonzoFlyingProducts · 11/07/2017 01:51

I'm a Dad.

I have a 17 yr old son from a previous relationship and he came to live with me and my long term girlfriend with whom I have two younger children seven years ago. She is awful to him. She picks on him, she resents him, she marginalises him. His own biological Mother is rubbish. Rarely calls, does nothing financially, never has much interest in seeing him, doesn't do anything like parents evening or the cricket match - or anything in fact.

Don't imagine this is a "Mum" only issue.
Lots of people are just shitty.

Parenting is difficult and requires sacrifice and hopeless unconditional love. Men are as capable as women of this.
Lots of women have great Dads.
Lots of men had crap Mothers.

Millions of men are excellent partners and parents.
Millions of women are selfish, lazy, entitled arse-holes.

Always get a mirror before you cast the first stone.

Pallisers · 11/07/2017 01:55

The men don't start off as complete bastards, it's step by step.

TBH I have read thread after thread on here by women who are dating/in relationships but not married/committed and I would have said what they described was "complete bastard, lose him" - I wouldn't have even needed to post on MN. But they are wondering about how to get him to change/how to manage him/are their expectations too high etc.

They do start off as complete bastards (by date 3 anyway) but the women are so conditioned to sort out/condone/accept less/everyone has problems right/no one is perfect/he is lovely a lot of the time/being a couple is lovely/everyone says he is great/ that they ignore. I suspect it is all right there very early on.

Why ARE these men so shit by the way??? are there really so many of them?? My husband, brothers in law, sisters husband and dad (spectacularly so) are lovely. It baffles me.

Pallisers · 11/07/2017 01:56

I have a 17 yr old son from a previous relationship and he came to live with me and my long term girlfriend with whom I have two younger children seven years ago. She is awful to him. She picks on him, she resents him, she marginalises him

You are letting this happen for seven years!! Seriously? Shame on you.

EverythingUnderTheSun · 11/07/2017 02:27

Pallisers are there really so many of them?? My husband, brothers in law, sisters husband and dad (spectacularly so) are lovely. It baffles me.

I was friends with my ex for quite a while before we got together. It seems he treats his partners differently.

Pallisers · 11/07/2017 02:33

It seems he treats his partners differently.

everything this is what baffles me. Most men in my family treat their partners better than anyone else. Why would a man treat his partner worse just because she is his partner? It is weird. And yet seems to be so common.

BennySF · 11/07/2017 03:10

Pallisers
the women are so conditioned to sort out/condone/accept less...

Why ARE these men so shit by the way???

You answered your own question: the same society that makes some women think it's ok to accept these behaviours makes some men think it's ok to act like that.

MistressDeeCee · 11/07/2017 03:42

YANBU. I think most women have put up with shit at some time in our lives tho. But you learn a lesson, surely? When I see that women live with lazy men who appear to want domestic slaves, workaholic men who also have hobbies aka I cant be fucked with family life so Im absenting myself, sulky passive aggressive men, openly aggressive men, men they've met on a dating site 2 days later its love then they're sitting there waiting for him to WhatsApp, angsting over why he hasn't messaged, picking up broken men then going into rescuer mode. ..I just despair. I want women to do better for themselves than waste their good years with some dickhead who isnt worth the time of day and is bringing stress and disruption into their lives. We have more choices these days yet still, women tire themselves out by getting with these no-marks. Its sad.

RainbowsAndUnicorn · 11/07/2017 07:29

YANBU.

For many, they seem to think it's unacceptable being single so would rather have any man than be alone. For others, they opted out of working and end up with no means to support themselves. A few don't want to share custody so won't leave.

For men, they know walking away usually means a lot of time without their children as there are lots of females who can be the bad partner as well.

It's the children I feel sorry for. Adults always have choices even if they don't take them but children don't. Why anyone would continue to have chidren or even a first with a bad partner is beyond me.

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