To think that the way a person turns out is more nurture than nature?

[ethelfleda]

Being pregnant with our first child, I've found myself asking what sort of personality traits I would like them to have and whether or not they are a product of their genes or their upbringing. For example, I would like my son to have confidence as well as empathy... are they things that you can reach your child or is it completely down to genetic make up in your opinion? Have you or do you know anyone who has two or more children that were raised the same but are completely different?
I would imagine there is definitely an element of which genes they inherit but I have always thought the way a child is raised and their experiences shape who they are. I believe I am more like my father than my mother for instance but I believe that is because I followed him around like a puppy all the time and was MUCH closer to him than my mom.
Really interested to know people's opinions on this one!

This is why twins are of great interest to psychologists - particularly those separated at birth and raised by different parents (adopted)

Being raised in a loving supportive family is always going to help but I think a lot of personality and aptitude is genetic.
My sister and myself were raised in the same way and couldn't be more different or have chosen more different paths through life. I've been surprised in turn by how very different my DD is to me. I've had to change a lot of the ways I thought I would parent to be able to best support her.

Nurture affects how well-adjusted (or not) you are, whether you have nice manners, for example. It can affect your hobbies (football, or tennis, horse riding, hunting, art, music) and pursuits.

But your personality is pure nature.

I think bringing your kids up believing it's nurture over nature is a good start because you can't go back and change your genes but you can give them the best start to life in way of environment and support.

I completely agree with this. Every child has a range of potential for every characteristic and parenting is about providing opportunities to fulfil that potential. The flip side of this is that you shouldn't believe that your own parenting is the whole reason that your children are doing well in whatever way. I know many awesome parents who just have more challenging children to parent.

The nature vs nurture debate is quite murky. For example - my DD is a good reader for her age. She has grown up in a house full of books, being read to frequently both at home and at nursery. But the environment is probably like that because DH and I are genetically predisposed to reading (as is DD) and we come from similar home environments. So it's very difficult to work out what is environmental and what is genetic.

Thank you for replying... these replies are fascinating and definitely make me question what I have always believed and make me want to do more research on the subject. I like the idea of your children having their own personalities but as a parent you guide and nurture them in the right way.

This response however I find to be very patronising and unfair:
You're cute, OP. Come back when you've raised a couple of kids past the toddler stage and let us know what you think.

Im presuming there was a time before you raised toddlers and therefore didn't know as much as you do now?? Well that's where I am - but at least I am trying to prepare myself and learn from others so maybe go easy on a novice like me, eh?

Nature does play a crucial part in some ways:

The most crucial time in a child's brain development is before the age of 2. After that it is impossible to undo the hard-wiring that has taken place, particualrly with regards to emotions and attachments.

Research was carried out on children from the awful Romanian orphanages in the early 90s. Those that were removed from the situation before, or soon after, the age of 2 went on to develop normally, those that had been in the orphanages after the age of 2 suffered with a myriad of problems.

More here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39055704

I agree that nature plays the more significant part, but nurture is key in its own way.

The opening line of my post should be "Nurture does play a crucial part..."

One of the reasons I was thinking about this actually is down to something my Mom used to do that I still sometimes do now -
When I was a kid and if I was doing something either 'naughty' or maybe just silly like kids are sometimes (singing a silly song for instance) my mom would slap me around the back of the head and call me a 'stupid idiot'
Now occasionally when my anxiety flares up and I do something stupid (e.g. dropping something or stubbing my toe) I will hit myself on the head and call myself a stupid idiot. And I was thinking that I never ever want to speak to my child that way. But then I was wondering if this can end up being something a kid just does anyway because his mother is prone to it... even if he never witnesses her doing it... if that makes any sense! Or maybe my mom was justified in doing that as she was stressed or whatever and really it's my fault that I still do it now? I have been doing this for years and years but only made the connection recently actually.

I was adopted at 6 weeks and never knew anything about my birth mother for 43 years.

I was a rebel, and nothing at all in character like my adoptive parents.

I met my birth mother when I was 44. We had many many similar traits, mannerisms, tastes. Our characters were very alike.

I have twins. Even though they are genetically identical, and have had the same upbringing, we are amazed that their personalities are so obviously different at just a year old. Not sure if that's an argument for nature or nurture - maybe a complex interaction between the two?!

I think nature predetermines what nurture is able to achieve. For example, I was raised by a narcissist mother and alcoholic father. I am neither, it just isn't in my nature to be controlling, self obsessed and violent. However, I am still trying to deal with what happened to me and think the effects of my upbringing will last me a lifetime.

Fortunately, my natural personality means that I am able to parent my dc and get great joy from loving and helping them grow.

But the environment affects how your genes are expressed. E.g. Diet, exercise, drug taking, exposure to viruses or certain chemicals. Epigenetics.
In any case, as with anything both genes and environment both will have an impact.

I believe nature 90% 10% nurture.
I read a good book on it ages ago. Can't remember what it was called. It was very interesting. I'll find out what it was called

My Mum would say that she brought her three dc up the same, I think what people really mean they say this they had the same rules for all their children, rather than they were all the same..

For eg, there's a two year gap between my Dh and I, for two years I was only child and had my Mum and Dads full attention, when my db was born their marriage was strained and for the first two years of his life, he had a distracted, nervous anxious Mum and a shouty abusive father, mum remarried and had my sister when I was ten, and while stepdad loved us and treat us the same, it wasn't the same if that makes sense? things like not being allowed go out with mates, or not giving schoolwork full attention as I had to look after my six year old sister while Mam and stepdad worked, my sister didn't ever have that experience there was never any more children to be babysat when she hit 15. She was able to have more freedoms and time to study as a result. I have no doubt that my Mum loves us all equally, but all three of us would explain our upbringing differently.

Saying that though, I don't think all bad people are born evil, but I don't also think that a child going off the rails is always the parents fault either. I think both play a part.

I think it must be nature.

Me and my sister were parented the same and only 12 months between us and we are very different people.

I was always in the top classes at school, worked hard, went on to do A Levels and a degree and have a good job whereas my sister had no interest in school, flunked out of two college courses and has a pretty generic job.

I'm a very tactile, loving and emotional person whereas she completely freezes if you dare try and hug her.

She is much more laid back than me, always seems to be laughing and is constantly surrounded by friends whereas I prefer my own company, only have a few close friends and tend to be generally more stressed and anxious about life.

My sister has two children and they couldn't be more opposite if they tried. Her eldest one is very naturally clever and excels at school whereas her youngest one doesn't really give a jot. Her eldest is also very loving and affectionate, telling my sister he loves her and wanting cuddles etc whereas the youngest hates being cuddled and would never gush out her feelings.

It fascinates me.

I'm currently pregnant with DC2 and I can't wait to see how similar/different my children will turn out to be.

When I did my psych degree, it was explained that genes gave us a pre-disposotion to behave in a certain way when our environment presents us with different scenarios. So 2 people may be exposed to the same highly stressful life events, but our genes will dictate how we react. Some people have genetic resillaince and others don't - they may become mentally unwell or turn to alcohol or drugs. The case of the Romainian orphanage children is just incredible (and heart-breaking) parts of their brains actually failed to develop because they were never shown any love or affection as babies. So sad

Here's a picture of a "normal" 3 year old's brain and a 3 year old from a Romanian Orphanage:

Wow cavemum that's fascinating! And as you say heart breaking!
So if parts of the brain failed to develop because of lack if affection that's a point for nurture I suppose.

I just hope DS inherits more of his father's traits than mine

You can't raise 2 kids the same, as overthinking said. I was speaking to an older lady in dhs family, about her own family of origin. Eldest child was very aware of all the financial advantages the family had by the time the youngest child was born, which they hadn't had a decade earlier. She said 'what eldest sibling is forgetting is that they knew our dad when he was still well'. No one could make that happen for the younger siblings.

And for closer together siblings, the fucking joy of being compared to your sibling can lead you to raise your game, or opt out. Kids know when their sibling 2 years younger can eg ride their bike without stabilisers, master grade 6 instrument, always get the countdown conundrum, even if parents don't compare, kids know.

I think birth order plays a huge part in nurture, although of course whether you get decent parents is bigger. You can get people brought up in awful circumstances who are horrible, and others who are fantastic. I think all the fantastic ones must have seen something at some point that taught them how to be kind.

However, with a few bits of extreme medical science aside, once the child had been conceived, you've done the choosing their dna bit. The amount of energy people put into choosing a reproductive partner varies greatly. But once they're here, that's done, and you get on with the business of raising them.

OP, when you meet your baby and get over the shock of the newborn stage you will soon become aware that he has his own personality. This personality becomes evident early on and changes little as they grow up. There's always things that they become better at or more confident about but the core personality remain the same.

I think all the fantastic ones must have seen something at some point that taught them how to be kind.

Or, they're innately kind (i.e. naturally kind).

love51 I agree with this point of view. It makes sense
My sisters and I were all raised in the same house but completely differently. I was close to my dad and had virtually nothing to do with my mom and my sisters were all about my mom and didn't spend time with my Dad. We are very different to each other.
Also - there are people that believe if you're only child this affects you... I wonder if this is true in all cases.

It's funny how the eldest ones are always the "naturally clever" ones, isn't it? I wonder if there's any possible reason for this? 😉

Nope. My friend was the eldest and a wild child. Younger sister was clever and well behaved and went to medical school.

I'd say nature, my 2 are chalk and cheese. My son is very cautious, very much a thinker. He seriously considers a situation before he offers any input. He seeks verbal reassurance constantly but doesn't like being touched physically (although I get lots of cuddles and kisses) and has a very strong bond with our family (grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins) but struggles to make friends as he is quite untrusting. My daughter is very affectionate, to pretty much everyone. She is prepared to try almost anything and is confident enough to try things on her own. She likes to touch and be touched, she loves to sing and dance whereas my son is completely logic and mechanically orientated. They're so different if you didn't know they were related you would never guess based on their natures. 17 months apart, same father.