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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think that thousands of people loving charlie and bradley is some what false.

999 replies

Lonelymummyof1 · 01/07/2017 07:29

I know exactly what It is like to have a poorly child same as hundreds more parents in the uk.
Set aside my belief that I believe that bradley has very little dignity and both him and charlie are now used as some weird sort of click bait.

The supporters I do not understand it ?

We love you, we are heart broken and we will miss you.

Now I get empathy but this is not empathy this is media posts just gone crazy to write the most heart breaking post they can.
I wish neither of these children would have to lose their life and can undetstand the parents pain just like the rest of the terminally ill children in this country.

You can feel sad that these things happen but this just seems weird and could not imagine allowing a nation of people watching my child pass away.

I mean how many of them 2 years from now will wake up on the morning of their anniversary and automatically remember them ?

OP posts:
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apostropheuse · 04/07/2017 10:00

I think it's become abundantly clear why GOSH were left with no option but to go to court, given the parents' actions.

The parents are now at the centre of an out of control situation where, even if they finally came to their senses and admitted that the medical staff of a world-renowned children's hospital actually have more medical knowledge than them, or the numpties who call themselves charlie's army, they would be unable to agree with the doctors and allow Charlie to die peacefully.

When Charlie is finally at rest his family will not even be allowed peace to grieve for him without the world's media looking on.

It's all totally futile and unnecessary. In fact those who ally themselves with CA are doing a grave disservice to Charlie's parents, not to mention actively encouraging an innocent child's ongoing pain. All because of mass hysteria.

It's shocking.

MommaGee · 04/07/2017 10:00

Family no one is being cruel. Everyone empathizes with the parents awful situation and a few parents have unfortunately been where they are. However tweeting Trump so he can say how he'll intervene isn't kindness, its insanity. Every court available has said he has no chance of recovery. Randomers holding protests in their house, telling their children that doctors murder babies (just for shots and giggles seemingly) then posting about how he's thriving - they're not helping. You can feel as insulted as you like as you but this fight isn't about you, its about a baby.
Raise awareness, put the 1.x million into research. Don't call one of the beat hospitals in the world murdering scum

MommaGee · 04/07/2017 10:08

Apparently he needs rescuing from socialism.

And if the Pope truly has "sided" with the parents, perhaps he should have a word with his boss

allowlsthinkalot · 04/07/2017 10:08

I've pretty much changed my mind on the whole issue in the past few days.

I'm not a keyboard warrior. But I do feel that barring abuse and neglect, parents should be the ones making decisions about their children's welfare.
Having worked in the NHS and seen many abuses of power, and also having worked in palliative care and seeing that there are many many children who continue to be treated beyond the point at which treatment is futile and no longer aims to be curative...Without debating the rights and wrongs of that, I didn't see why Charlie was any different and why, if the parents have raised the funds and a US doctor is prepared to offer treatment, they shouldn't be allowed to take him to the US to exhaust that option...with sedation and pain medication to minimise his discomfort (although I do understand that it isn't possible to eliminate completely, this is the case for other children too).

There ARE cases where parents have researched and defied medical opinion (think Lorenzo's Oil). It's highly highly unlikely. But I can't blame the parents for trying or for trying to harness social media to put pressure on.

However, Charlie's Army have changed my mind and not in the way they hoped.

I've read the court judgement and read about mitochondrial disease. But these thickos do not understand any of it and the parents' grief and desperation is now being exploited. Donald Trump is using this poor little boy as a political pawn. And the best thing to do at this stage is allow the poor thing to slip away quietly in his parents' arms and support the parents. Which is what GOSH are trying to do.

Charlie's Army have made it impossible for him to leave that hospital and have undermined any sensible ethical argument. There is no argument any more, just a baby who is terminally ill and suffering.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 04/07/2017 10:10

So what do you think family !

What do you think should happen with Charlie ? I am not having a go

TinyTear · 04/07/2017 10:11

I have just donated to GOSH

MommaGee · 04/07/2017 10:21

At this point if they try to move Charlie from his bed into transport and he dies it'll be murder. If he dies on a flight strapped to a hospital bed it will be murder. If he makes it to America and dies, if the treatment doesn't work, if it works for a bit... It'll be murder. CA have whipped it up into such a frenzy that the only option is for everyone to loose.

If Charlie's parents don't come out ranting and raving there going to have to face a huge and bitter backlash from CA who have invested all their energy into a fight many of them barely understand.

Hospitals aren't always right - parents of babies with Edwards Syndrome for example are directed repeatedly5to abortion, early induction, no fetal monitoring during labor, no intervention after birth yet when they get this help he babies can survive and have a decent quality of life . so I know they're not perfect. But this isn't ibex hospital is it. Its 3 or 4 courts. There's a representative for Charlie.

I hope his parents get the closure they need in the coming months and years but um not convinced they'll be allowed

LogicalPsycho · 04/07/2017 10:30

I do feel that barring abuse and neglect, parents should be the ones making decisions about their children's welfare.

Now this is what I don't understand.
When you are the victim of crime, you call on the Police, because it is their job.
When you have a toothache you call a dentist, because it is their job.
We put our trust in outside agencies daily, because their knowledge or ability in a particular situation surpasses our own.

But when it comes to Doctors, Neonatal specialists for God's sake, people who've never taken a biology class in their life are jumping up and down to say "Nah Doc, you're talking shit mate".

QuackPorridgeBacon · 04/07/2017 10:43

Family no one has been "hasty" with their comments, everyone on here has long thought of responses which is a lot more than can be said of the "hasty" comments from 'Charlie's army'.

reallyanotherone · 04/07/2017 10:45

I do feel that barring abuse and neglect, parents should be the ones making decisions about their children's welfare

Agreed. But the argument is that parents, sometimes, don't always act in a childs best interest.

In this case, GOSH's point is that keeping charlie alive is effectively continued abuse. The parents are causing him pain and suffering by continuing to force medical intervention with no benefit to charlie.

The dr's took the case to court, and the decision was removed from the parents because they were not acting in his best interest. Despite all their intentions, they are continuing to harm him.

allowlsthinkalot · 04/07/2017 10:50

The thing is logical that when you work in health care you realise how much is down to the doctor's individual opinion. In this case though, it's pretty unanimous and not really debatable that there is no hope for this poor child.

But I don't understand the point of view that doctors hold all the power and we don't challenge them. Parents can be the experts in their child's condition and in many cases know more than the doctors treating them (disclaimer :talking generally and not about this case).

My daughter has a rare form of diabetes that is genetic. The first paediatrician I saw was an arse hole who LAUGHED when I suggested it. I pushed for genetic testing. Took her to the UK specialist. And she does have the gene mutation.

I wouldn't want to be in a position where doctors have power over my decisions as a parent and are making decisions about my child's best interest when I know my child and their condition...and it is my job to advocate for that child.

Unfortunately parents who are informed and research and insist do oten get better treatment for their children.

allowlsthinkalot · 04/07/2017 10:52

Yeah, I agree, really.

However they are not the only parents to do this. I wonder why this has got so far when in many cases children do undergo treatment that isn't really in their interests.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 04/07/2017 10:53

Exactlylogical. People need to learn to accept that they don't understand everything and others will, and we need to learn to listen to them.

I am Simone who has argued with doctors and nurses and really flipped out on them. Never to do with anything medical that I don't understand though. People, learn your limits!

Wonders71 · 04/07/2017 10:58

Its so heart breaking but all these people posting about children they dont really know when someone in there town or village maybe suffering ! Why not show those parents support.

SomewhatNewToThis · 04/07/2017 11:25

Parental rights are of course important, however I do disagree that parents should always have the last say. Yes, the child is their child. However, the parents wishes are not always what is best for the child, especially when emotions run high and circumstances are so harrowing.

We mustn't forget that the child's rights are more important than the parents rights. If a child is in pain, should the parents be allowed to continue their suffering in the hope that there is a very small chance of them getting better in the future?

This is why in some scenarios higher courts or guardians are needed to make decisions instead, because as much as I hate to admit it, parents are not always right.

MumIsRunningAMarathon · 04/07/2017 11:30

Don't think parents have 'rights'..... merely responsibilities

Maudlinmaud · 04/07/2017 11:33

Honeatly, I think GOSH should just let the parents take him out now, I know legally that probably cannot happen and it would not be in the best interests of Charlie. But they seem so determined to fight for their rights that I think that's the solution.
Charlie will die. Whether that is in transport or comfortably in his parents arms.
It's horrible but the situation seems so futile and the anger is building and building. This has left me cold. Anyone in health care that I know talks about the importance of a good death not just for the benefit of the person who dies but for their family. This isn't how it should be.

MommaGee · 04/07/2017 11:42

But if he die in the arms of a nurse being transferred will they be happy? Or in the ambulance where only one can hold him?

I do think they should have done anything they could to get him into a hospice or home but there has to be a reason they're saying no. Im sure CA know Confused

Placeanditspatrons · 04/07/2017 11:45

But if they back down now (GOSH and the courts) doesn't that pave the way for future cases like this? It's basically bullying. They will have been bullied into doing something that isn't the right thing to do and they can't defend themselves because of patient confidentiality.

JaneEyre70 · 04/07/2017 11:49

I don't think it's even remotely possible though for them to take him home. I think they would block any attempts to turn the machines off - and then what would happen? They are so caught up in the delusion of their son being helped and all those idiots on Charlie's Army are just helping them suffer more. I haven't even read the news online today, I can't bear to. I think this is truly one of the most appalling medical stories I've ever heard and am disgusted that even now, the parents are calling all the shots via social media. It must never be allowed to happen again, and I hope GOSH are fully prepared for any future conflicts as a result of this. I think whoever said that parents don't have rights but responsibilities hit the nail right on the head.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/07/2017 11:51

I do think they should have done anything they could to get him into a hospice or home but there has to be a reason they're saying no. Im sure CA know

Not sure if you were actually being ironic (?) but I doubt this very much. If CA knew anything at all, I can hardly imagine they'd hesitate to blast it all over social media

Maudlinmaud · 04/07/2017 11:55

Momma & Place I know. I do agree with you both.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 04/07/2017 11:55

I ... am disgusted that even now, the parents are calling all the shots via social media. It must never be allowed to happen again, and I hope GOSH are fully prepared for any future conflicts as a result of this

I take your point, but I'm honestly not sure how anyone could stop it happening again? The social media genie is out of the bottle now, and I doubt anyone would accept being told that they can't post on it

JaneEyre70 · 04/07/2017 11:56

I do wonder if a hospice environment would have helped the parents accept his terminal diagnosis better............

HeyRoly · 04/07/2017 12:00

I doubt they would have even consented to Charlie going into a hospice Jane, because a) until recently they've refused to accept his prognosis and b) they seem to fight absolutely everything that is put to them by GOSH.

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