To feel upset how unpopular teachers are.

[Jellymuffin]

Great news about public sector pay rises - yay! Que countless comments along the lines of 'not all public sector deserve a pay rise, only, nurses, paramedics, police and firefighters'. Everyone except teachers then? Should have expected it really .

Boggle, thank you, so we'll put. The education system is at breaking point. This Isn't acceptable for our children.

Try working in the Third Sector! No public sector pension, no private sector bonuses. Endless hours on shite pay (because we all work for altruistic motives). Stretched more and more because public sector services are cut so we have to pick up the slack on no money.

I think that most workers deserve credit for their hard work and dedication, no matter what their role.

But it does seem that teachers are the most vocal at complaining about how hard their work is. I'm not denying its hard, I'm not denying it's vital and invaluable. It's just that sometimes I glaze over when I see yet another MN post about how hard it is. You don't see other professions complaining half as much.

I realise that teachers are stretched. That many face burnout. That retention is an issue for all our futures. That many suffer abuse they don't deserve.

I really appreciate my DD's teachers. I hope they know how much they are appreciated. And the office staff, and the Head, and the catering team, and the caretaker.

And the social workers, and the prison guards, and medics, and pilots, and the lad at the till in Tesco, and the packers in Amazon warehouse, and the lawyers, and the authors etc etc.

Not read the whole thread, but could you avoid looking at wherever it is that you see the anti teacher stuff?
I know there's a particular subject on mumsnet that is guaranteed to upset me if i read some of the replies, so if i see it in the thread title i hide the thread without reading it. It's much better. It's like if you read the comments on any news site, there are always people with quite offensive views, so it's best not to read them.

I've been in teaching for almost two decades (with seven years' social work prior) and it still never fails to amaze me how overlooked we can be.

Yes, we get long holidays and depending on you position the pay is good. And yes, I absolutely love my job and those I work with.

But no one ever looks at the harder parts.

That it's hard to try and get kids through exams when even getting them to stay in the classroom for one period is a mammoth task.

It's having kids not bother to put the work in and then having parents phone me up screaming that it's all your fault. You wouldn't believe some of the shit I've had shouted at me over the years - from teachers and pupils.

It's the relentless deadlines and targets and paperwork. It's the fifteen hour days, and seeing colleagues have breakdowns literally in front of your eyes.

It's talking kids down form suicide. Having them confide in you about the most awful sexual abuse. Having to sit there maintaining composure because you have to be the one in control all the time, even when dealing with things you've not even been trained in how to deal with correctly.

Then going back to the classroom and doing it all again, day in, day out.

I've had some amazing, amazing teachers who I can honestly say changed my life. I have had kids tell me that I had the same effect on them.

The work medical professionals and firefighters do is crucial beyond words and I'm not for one moment diminishing that or suggesting teachers are more important.

But we're every bit as important, and are overlooked by a lot of society. A good teacher, a key adult, can change a life.

The trouble is that everyone thinks they are an expert on education because they went to school or have children who do. Like Katherina, who clearly doesn't have a clue. Teachers aren't leaving the profession in their droves because of the lack of a £40 000 salary. Ask pretty much any teacher whether they'd prefer a 25% pay rise or a 25% reduction in pointless paperwork and meaningless number crunching workload and see what they say.

Teachers aren't hated (except by angry, belligerent twats), but non-teachers really don't understand what the job is like. Why would they? I don't fully understand what lots of other jobs are like. But the difference is, I don't presume to say what bank managers should be doing or how much they should be paid, just because I have a bank account.

• parents and pupils not teachers and pupils

• from not form

It's been a long day!

Ha ha ha. Try being an NHS manager. Everyone hates you, even your colleagues, your friends, your family and there are more misconceptions about your role and worth than almost any other position. During the 5 years that I did the job, my own father thought I was just standing around hospital wards with a clipboard. Hmm. I worked for a PCT.

Anyway, teachers. I'm a governor and I hate what this govt has done to education and hate even more the budget cuts that are going to affect the poorest in society, widen inequalities and lead to more children not achieving.

I'm a parent and a governor. I would not teach my children. Or any others. I struggle enough with HE students. That's before having to deal with ever changing goalposts, endless reporting of progress and data, loss of support from TAs in the classroom due to changes in the SEND register which means that the children previously identified as school action and school action plus no longer get support.

I couldn't do it. I would not want to do it and I hope my daughters never go into the public sector at all because the pay is shit and few people have any respect at all for what you do.

I was a teacher for 12 years, core subject, and a bloody good one - Head of Department for four years and a Lead Practitioner. Left five years ago (despite the head begging/ trying to bribe me to stay - not blowing my own trumpet but mine is a shortage subject and they couldn't recruit a qualified replacement) for a private sector job and haven't looked back. My boss can't believe how I manage to take on so many more cases than some of my colleagues but it is a piece of piss compared to teaching. And six weeks less holiday a year is worth it for not having to not take work home and being able to take TOIL if I do over my contracted hours. I have my life back and actually get to spend time with my own children. YANBU op. I worry about my children's education- all the decent teachers are getting out and I don't blame them.

Gazelda so true too and it is that lack of money and therefore lack of support that also adds to a bleak future for children. In recent times the rise in the number of dysfunctional families, the rise in the number of children with mental health issues, the seriously badly behaved children is scared. This is primary age, this is families living in crisis, with stress. This is the effects of lack of support in our system through parent support advisers, children's centres, sure start, speech and language therapists, ed. psychs. Etc. Local charities have tried to step in; their funding streams are cut too.
Life in school is really difficult at the moment and a tightened, test led system doesn't support the needs of these vulnerable children. Basic needs must be met for any child to thrive.

YesMadam and Eolian. how right you are. Thank you. Teachers will never persuade some people that the job is difficult and stressful and it's pointless trying. Until, of course, the breaking system finally crumbles and there is no longer an education system in this country. Or at least, one that is populated by qualified teaching staff. There may still be very well qualified cover supervisors and teaching assistants, until there's a further squeeze on finances.

I was verbally abused by parents and pupils more times than I care to remember, wrestled to the ground, threatened and had an attempt made to set my department on fire. I've dealt with parents threatening suicide, distraught pupils and criticism from people who have no knowledge or understanding of the context of the school. But I've also had children thinking me, confiding in me and telling me they'll never forget me. Those are the things that make it worthwhile.

Take comfort from these words of Juvenal nearly 2000 years ago writing about life as a teacher:

'Yet you parents lay down savage laws for the schoolmaster, Demand he should stick to the rules in his use of grammar, Should read the histories, and know all the authors as well As he knows his fingernails. It's no light thing to keep watch on all Those boys, with their hands and eyes quivering with purpose. ‘That’s your job,’ the parents say, yet come the turn of the year, You’ll get, in gold, what the crowd grants for one gladiatorial win.'

la plus ca change...

neuro I'd love to know what you've moved into if you'd be willing to share...

Foxyloxy Exactly.

I could not agree more with everything you have said.
Your last line especially struck a particular chord within me.

IDK, I think we social workers compete with you in the unpopularity stakes.

Anybody have any facts about the rate teachers leave the profession vs other professions is? I would love to see some stats. A dear friend of mine is a dedicated teacher and she works ludicrous hours and moved into it from a job paying 3x more.

There may still be very well qualified cover supervisors and teaching assistants, until there's a further squeeze on finances.

Yep, I currently put my Oxbridge Languages degree and PGCE to little use as a cover supervisor tbh. It's glorified babysitting/crowd control. I don't even need to be a qualified teacher to do it. But it beats having to deal with the shit that actual teachers put up with! I will never go back to full time proper teaching. And it's all I wanted to do since I was 12.

Gazelda

But it does seem that teachers are the most vocal at complaining about how hard their work is.

the strange thing is that teachers are the most vocal because they are often the most complained about. Its a rare day where there isn't a thread about a teacher, school or something linked to school on here.

As for complaining how hard they/we work it is almost never started by teachers but in response to bullshit mis-information posted by people putting teachers down.

And yes I know that there are threads complaining about other professions.

pottered

at the moment

A quick google search shows about 1 in 10 of all teachers leaving each year.
1 in 10 core subject teachers leaving each year
and about a third leave in the first 5 years.

I worked as a nurse and now as a teacher. Both are hard, but I wasn`t cut out to be a nurse. There are very few jobs without pressure or demands on them.

I trained as a Secondary school teacher 3 years ago.
I had been in high earning positions pre-kids and then had my own business. This is the hardest I have ever worked for the least financial reward.
I have never been so tired in my entire life. The workload in term time is such that I literally live school and am not there for my own family.
Yes, the holidays are great but the terms nearly break me more and more.
Do I deserve a pay rise? Yes. Do other PS workers? Yes.
For all those going on about bad teachers from their youth, let it go. It's a totally different profession these days. And you are no longer a stroppy teen (in some cases anyway).

t's just frustrating how different private and public sector are. My husband gets bonuses and pay rises
Not the way to go OP, does your husband get job security and as much holiday than you?

For all those going on about bad teachers from their youth, let it go. It's a totally different profession these days. And you are no longer a stroppy teen (in some cases anyway).

It's not just about stroppy teenagers.

I had mental health problems as a teen and was bullied by my head of year. This was not so long ago.

There are some shockingly nasty people in the profession still and they seem to rise high up in the ranks.

Urubu

does your husband get job security

not something teachers get now either.
as has been pointed out, you can get rid of a teacher is 6 six weeks and the many schools are making teachers redundant.

My DH was a teacher for 12 years. a very very good one. he consistently got the top exam results for his department ( science) . he was assistant head of department and he never ever took work home. he'd get to school at about 8am and leave at about 4;30. holidays were just that, holidays. if you are intelligent and organised you do not have to work 800000 hours a week. . Oh and this was only 2 years ago that he left ( for reasons that weren't to do with being pissed off with teaching)