To feel upset how unpopular teachers are.

[Jellymuffin]

Great news about public sector pay rises - yay! Que countless comments along the lines of 'not all public sector deserve a pay rise, only, nurses, paramedics, police and firefighters'. Everyone except teachers then? Should have expected it really .

X-post redpeppers!

My school days were the worst days of my life, all made worst by sarcastic bastard teachers, they made my life a misery. Sorry but I sit at my children's parents evenings and I still carry the baggage of years ago. My children have had some lovely teachers but they've been few and far between

jelly that's another discussion altogether but if I may say, even though there is such level of checks and evaluation of the teachers, I have to say I've met quite a few that just aren't good at all (as in not knowing their subject or unable to adapt to the top/bottom of the class).

However, I also think that when you are stressing people out the way teachers are, you just can NOT get the best out of them. So all the checks and evaluations are, IMO, maybe detrimental to what the aim is supposed to be.

Personal experience, both as a teacher and as a parent. I'm not sure I'd say most, but certainly a lot of them are a bit crap.

I would say that most teachers these days can't spell (which I would think a basic requirement for the job, but there you go). Grammar is uniformly terrible, subject knowledge often weak (I appreciate that primary teachers have to be generalists, but some have massive blind spots), and attitude frequently poor.

Did you know that teaching is the profession with the highest rate of suicide?

Actually it isn't.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/suicidebyoccupation/england2011to2015

31% lower than the national average for the entire profession. 42% higher risk for primary/nursery.

As a contrast, female nurses have a risk at 24% that of the general population.

The highest risk is for men in low skilled occupations. One of my relatives works in construction and their biggest problem is now suicide on site, whereas it used to be injuries due to bad health and safety policy.

The thing is, if teachers really were well paid then a lot of people who are currently teachers wouldn't be able to get a job...

I would love to know why you think this.

Boney, I mean properly paid as in 40K for a class teacher. A proper professional rate. I think money is the issue for many.

KatherinaMinola
Personal experience

so no real evidence to back it up at all. Good to know.

This is a chat forum, Boney . We're all giving our personal experience. I could certainly work it up into a paper though, I've got enough data.

"scrutinisation"? "anymore"? "rather then"? (Bollocks was that "que" autocorrect.)

Teaching pay is pretty generous really.

It still surprises me I earn more than my friend who works in forensic science and has a PHd.

KatherinaMinola

But that doesn't explain why you think that "a lot of people who are currently teachers wouldn't be able to get a job..."

Money isn't going to move people in to a profession where the working conditions mean that not only can you be abuse by parents and children, but the children will be back in the classroom the next day.

Even if you have a very pro-active and protective SMT you are still working in a system that doesn't promote the protection of staff.

I dont think money is an issue unless you go from UP3 to Leadership spine....then this is often not worth it. I didnt apply for assistant head as I would have only earned an extra £20 a week for being a senior teacher. However as a classroom teacher with a TLR as a head of year, I am comfortable with my wages.

I think my pay is fine but it is the demands from SLT, LA, govt and parents which i the problem. I love teaching my classes but it is what happens beyond the classroom which narks me, not the pay.

KatherinaMinola

I'm not the one pulling pulling posters up on spelling on a chat forum. but then I am also not giving my opinion as fact. It is just my opinion.

Thing is students see these same teachers day in, day out, for years. If you have a poor experience with most of the other roles, it's something you don't have to dal with too regularly and you are able to think with your feet most of the time. For example crap GP, generally you can at least see a different one within the same practice.

Throw into the mix that teachers are dealing with children/teenagers who are still learning to control their emotions/feelings/personality clashes etc. and that their parents are naturally automatically protective of their offspring, you are going to end up with acrimony and animosity.
It's hard to stay subjective and keep context in education. Parents, and teachers, often forget this. Hence the bad press.

Whatever role you do you're going to take criticism; try to see it constructively. Do the very best you can at your job. Most of the time your are appreciated; it's just not always acknowledged and really, does it have to be?

I think teacher's pay is pretty reasonable tbh. They already earn more than say, nurses, for no real reason - I'd say both are responsible, difficult and demanding jobs.

Boney, I think the whole system would be better if teachers were paid at the rate of other professions. Leadership would be better, support would be better, and people wouldn't stand for abuse.

I wouldn't normally point out someone's spelling on a chat forum, but I think it is relevant here (I did say above that most teachers can't spell, and the OP did try to blame her own poor spelling on autocorrect).

I'm not giving my opinion as fact any more than you are, btw.

Agreed itmustbe, however until recently, nursing didn't require a degree. It does now. Maybe he pay will eventually reflect this.
My husband is a mental health nurse, I'm a teacher, we definitely both deal with a lot of stress!

*the

They can give us a pay rise but if they don't give schools the money to pay it, then education is even more fucked than it is at the moment. Teachers will be made redundant to pay for the pay rise.

I think the pay is ok but understand what teachers say about the prep, ofsted etc. It's one reason why I could not do it. I do think teachers earn the holidays.

Re the stroppy parents, I feel that goes with the territory as much as stroppy kids though I understand is the more unsavoury part of the job.

Most of us have to deal with difficult people in our work. I work in retail and could tell you a few stories. You would not believe how emotive people get about out of stock items

I think I've missed something - what's changed with public sector pay?? I'm a public sector workers and haven't been informed of any changes!

^ didn't autocorrect

I don't think you understand how Autocorrect works, Tizzy

If Jellymuffin has typed in the word Que a lot, the phone or tablet will Autocorrect to that.

Like any profession/job - there are some great teachers and some poor teachers.
What I do find irritating (and to be fair I only see it on Mumsnet ) is the constant moaning from some teachers about how they have to buy their own supplies and their snipey comments about whether holidays are paid or unpaid and then giving incredibly complicated explanations about why the holidays aren't actually paid - loads of us in the private sector also pay for 'extras' to make our jobs better, to give our customers a better experience etc etc. And earn considerably less than teachers.

And I find it amazing to understand how hard it is to sack a teacher - apparently having sex in the broom cupboard during school hours, with another teacher, is not a sackable offence .

MissBax nothing yet - but the gov has today announced that it is going to review the 1% cap on public sector pay rises which has been in place since 2010.

OP, I think it is worth remembering that in the immediate context of the horrendous attacks and tragedies over the last few months, people's minds immediately turn to the emergency services and HCPs.

gandalf456

Re the stroppy parents, I feel that goes with the territory as much as stroppy kids though I understand is the more unsavoury part of the job

Stroppy yes, definitely part of the job.

Abusive, nasty, violent and lets not forget criminal behaviour shouldn't be part of anyone's job. And shouldn't be confused with stroppy.