To ask if you decided not to vaccinate your children

[Mintpepper]

Do you regret it? Did they catch any of the diseases that they could have been vaccinated for and what was the outcome?

And anyone who did get their children vaccinated - did they catch any of the diseases anyway? And do you regret vaccinating for any reason?

This isn't intended to start a debate for or against vaccination generally as that's been done many times, I'm more just interested in your personal experiences if you'd be willing to share them. Thank you.

'm immunocomprised and prefer to be sensible about who I interact with rather than shouting at strangers about vaccines.

Not immunocompromised, but unvaccinated due to other reasons (I've had a few) and I agree with this. The shouting doesn't do anyone any favours. Again, I am not anti-vaccination, I am seriously against compulsory vaccination as it doesn't target the populations that have severely low uptake and I feel what Italy has done is a little akin to ethnic cleansing (as they've done nothing to tackle catching the Roma, Gypsie and Travelling populations up and there appears to be no plan in place to do that yet - at least in the UK we are working on that!); the best system to catch up with low vaccination rates is education and informed choice (whether that's on schedule or off schedule and delayed); a large number of the deaths we've seen in relation to measles across Europe are from children within RGT populations. In recent years in the UK we have seen a greater uptake in the MMR vaccine amongst these populations but it's still only around 50ish%.

I cannot see how Italy's "compulsory vaccination" schedule is going to tackle this at all; I do see how it further ostracizes RGT children and prevents them from accessing inclusive education - a huge issue the community already faces.

Both my DCs vaccinated, I don't regret it and they've had no health complications

Alright, I'll say it gently. Please vaccinate your children because destroying herd immunity isn't terribly naice.

Can I very politely suggest that when you research things like single vaccines, you look very carefully at the background of the author of the article/book/paper. If that person has a financial interest in selling single vaccines, then it may not bad as impartial as it appears.

I have an observation that might be useful for anybody who is interested in shifting a significant chunk of swayable non-vaccinating parents over to vaccinating.

I was a non-vaccinator (aside from the obligatory ones) but not a super mega, ideologically committed one. I was basically a scared, non injection liking parent who had been swayed by some sensational headlines and further persuaded by some paranoia inducing, cherry picked online sources. In other words, probably amoung the majority of parents who don't vaccinate. Most of whom only read vaccination threads, rather than participate in them.

I was persuadable because my stance was built on a rather sandy foundation of "Ekk! It's all so scary and I have gone rabbit in the headlights" , rather than "I'm an anti-vax BELIEVER!"

Primed by the anti-vax movement online, I went into the first vaccination round with my dander up, ready for a fight over the optional jabs. And my expectations were met. It was all a bit sneery/irritated and my instinctive response was to dig my heels in harder.

When I went back after the measles outbreak frightened me, I was actually only looking to jab DS with just the MMR. But the nurses took a very different approach to the first group I encountered. They were lovely to me and used honey not vinegar. I cried, mostly with relief that I wasn't having to fight or get defensive I think. They got out the tissues. Were really gentle and comprehending of my "I don't like my kid being stabbed with needles and I've got all worked up and scared cos of stuff I have read. Plus being defensive has made my resistance look more steely than it actually is" mixed bag of fear and frustration.

They listened to my (rather snot infested) worries and armed with that were able to talk me away from my emotion-fuelled, anti-vax edge. DS left with the full flotilla of vax optionals either in his system, or on his appointment card for the near future. Which I willingly went back for. It wasn't like I was there for hours squandering Italian NHS resources, I pretty much crumbled within 15 minutes, after six or seven years of firmly crossed arms and a set jaw.

I think if the health system started something informal where the people with a natural disposition for honey not vinegar got pointed at the reticent, and people online took a leaf out of that book, a lot more people could be persuaded in a far shorter length of time.

The (second group) of nurses were so nice and sympathetic that my perception of the other side of the argument shifted hard and fast. Just as I rejected vaccination on an emotional basis, so too did I vaccinate on an emotional basis. A significant part of how that occurred was the health professionals engagement with said emotional basis in a non-combative, non-judgemental and sympathetic fashion. Which completely disarmed me. Once my defensiveness was removed from the equation, most of my anti-vax tools were neutralised before I had even got them out of the holster.

I get why people get angry and frustrated. I really do. But bringing that frustration and anger to the forefront of communication aimed at persuading the people with doubts might be less productive than people believe it is.

BertrandRussell Brilliant point to make.

I'll also add - be careful with things from wider organisations too - the CDC have just had a pretty huge scandal into publishing research where the researchers were actually financially involved with the medical area they were "researching". Sadly, many people still believe the CDC is absolutely independent - it does still have some really awesome science behind so don't write it all off in one go - just be aware of the authors and do some background research into them.

I wasn't vaccinated against whooping cough as there was a scare at the time. I had it and my ribs still stick out a bit funny. And my sister got mumps.

Mine have had all jabs except flu and chicken pox.

I was nervous re MMR with DD1, born in 2012.

My nerves were down to being a first time mum and recently having found out about some underlying health conditions with her and my husband that could have contributed to some of the associated problems with MMR (bowels not autism). I decided to pay for the singles and you can no longer get a mumps single so she has not had that.

I read a lot about it at the time including Wakefields book. He may be batshit crazy now but I do believe he had a point. If you read what he actually said versus what was reported in headlines there is a significant difference and he actually started by examining gastro issues which was his original concern rather than autism. I do believe he was a victim of big pharma/ government cover up. Whilst I believe the MMR is safe now I think there were definitely issues in the 90s. The guy who vaccinated my daughter had formerly been a consultant paediatrician and had left the NHS as he had dealt with after effects of a "faulty batch" that the government knew had issues but due to the money involved had continued to use.he was of the belief money was coming before ethics.

With my second daughter born 2014 the singles were no longer available only a combined "measles rubella" option. I therefore decided to give her the normal MMR. I hate that I did not have the choice and have had to treat my girls differently and again it is government deals with pharmaceuticals that have forced this situation.

If you think this isn't about money you are very naive. I know people will slate me for giving a shred of credibility to Wakefield but read the book with an open mind as I did it is eye opening.

I understand there is now some concern re the HPV vaccine side efffects so that will probably be the next controversy.

"Alright, I'll say it gently. Please vaccinate your children because destroying herd immunity isn't terribly naice."

My DC had all the vaccines except a few that are not necessary and/or in their best interests.

Don't expect me to give DC an injection for the good of society that has a small risk but doesn't offer them a significant benefit, because you will be bitterly disappointed.

I vaccinated my son, and I would vaccinate any more that I have. On time. Because it affords them protection in their young life, and protects those around them who, for what ever reason are unable to be vaccinated.

I too, dipped my toe in the anti vax water, but I decided that it wasn't worth the risk. My DS had chicken pox and other than one day in bed with a fever, he had no ill effects from.

It's the whole groups stance on autism that annoys me. They tell children with autism that there 'damaged' and that's not right. The man who started the Dr Wakefield retracted the paper he wrote as false. And admitted to lying about the vaccine and autism link. He has a lot to answer for.

I don't understand what you are after here. If everyone is getting prickly then it's you (perhaps the experiences listed here do not confirm your beliefs?)

I don't understand how asking for anecdotes constitutes research. By all means 'research' vaccinations before going ahead with them. If you consult legitimate scientific sources you will come to the conclusion that vaccinating is the right choice. But something tells me you won't be looking at scientific peer-reviewed research.

It strikes me that this current i-will-do-my-own-research-parenting trend is based on an unholy mix of too much time, susceptibility to conspiracy theories and a belief in one's absolute intellectual and moral superiority.

I vaccinated my son for everything offered and will now look into cp vaccine. Thanks everyone!

I regret not getting the hpv for myself. It would have been too late probably anyway when it came out but like a pp wrote it might have saved me worry after being diagnosed with cin2. All is good now thankfully. But my son will get vaccinated against this too when the time comes.

My US family were horrified that we didn't have a routine CP vaccine programme. Which even I thought was ott until my husband got CP and was off work for nearly a month.

I vaccinated (MMR) after being harassed into it a little by the practise nurse. I was going to delay the jabs for MMR as I had concerns. I ignored my gut feeling & just thought it will be ok...

Wish I had stick to my guns, DD now has (a diagnosis of) autism and with hindsight the tiny signs were already there, I just didn't know it. I still wonder if by vaccinating I made the situation any worse as things went sharply down hill after that :( Still feel guilty about this. The discredited doctor may have made some grave errors but like many people I'm suspicious about the position and pressure of the drugs companies.

One of my issues with the vaccinations is actually the schedule. So many jabs at such a fast pace. There are far more jabs for children than there were 20 years ago, and they're all squashed up. The individual vaccines may be tested but cumulatively they are not. (Last time I checked, I'm going back some years). Some doctors think they represent quite a load on the immune system.

Anyone who thinks vaccinations are totally harmless should read around the subject more. There are vaccine damaged children out there - I think there's even a financial scheme to help them?

I missed a lot of the childhood vaccinations (my parents weren't anti-vaxxers, just had a lot of problems that made them neglectful in general) and it's caused a lot of problems. I am on the autistic spectrum incidentally. And my dad who was born in the 1940s was autistic.

One of my friends can't have any vaccinations due to having a kidney transplant as a baby. She's reliant on herd immunity.

I would never not vaccinate.

"I still wonder if by vaccinating I made the situation any worse as things went sharply down hill after that" You absolutely didn't.

Of course there are side effects to vaccines of various degrees of seriousness- ANY medicine that works can have side effects-have you read the insert in a calpol box? But autism isn't a side effect of MMR.

@Mintpepper is this because of the vaccine programme ad on the homepage of YouTube?

Dh had measles as a little boy and survived unscathed (so you can be lucky).

Several friends are anti-vax. Three of their kids have caught measles so far. All have been ok (no long-term effects)

Two posts that stood out but there have been others similar.

NB I am pro-vax.

There's one thing I always think when this comes up and I'd be curious to hear what others think.

I'm late forties, so didn't have MMR. Now, I know there was a measles vaccine around when I was a child, and maybe I had it - I don't recall. But - what I do know is that I had measles, as did everyone in my class at school, and was fine - and the 'atmosphere' around measles then, me thinking back from a child's viewpoint - is that measles THEN was seen as a childhood disease on a par with chickenpox. Most people had measles and were fine. An uncle I recall had partial hearing loss from childhood measles, and that was seen as a very rare unfortunate thing - a rare chance.

Now measles is obviously a killer disease. But the fact is that most people who have measles will be ok. So I often wonder whether part of the reason for the big backlash against MMR, when it happened, was not only the scaremongering itself, but the lingering effect of the outlook of a population where many people had first-hand experience of measles being a common, accepted disease. Yes, a risk of serious complications - but a rare risk. Like I said - everyone had measles at some point when I was at primary. It was so common. So I wonder whether there is just this residual sector of the population (and surely now getting far more residual, so perhaps vaccination refusal will continually go down as time goes on??) who do just not have it in their heads that measles is 'a killer' and still mentally have it in the same grade as chickenpox?? Whether that outlook helped facilitate folk being more willing to refuse MMR?

Often wonder whether mine is/was a typical experience. I've spoken to some other parents/friends in my age bracket though, and they say pretty much the same.

I mentioned just the MMR - but have vaccinated against everything else, albeit reluctantly, though not regretfully. I say reluctantly because I would prefer drugs companies to release ALL the data they have rather than just selected data on the outcome of vaccines. It's a trust issue.

Like a poster upthread, I was also irritated by the sneery attitude of some health care professionals when I felt uncertain.

If I could do it all again I might space the vaccines out a bit more - insofar as possible.

The HPV jab - that's coming up for us. There were 5 deaths in Australia reported in a 2014 study after their HPV jabs programme was rolled out - none could be directly attributed to the vaccine ... but the conclusion says that 7% of the girls reported 'serious' side effects. Interesting.

@FizzyGreenWater my mum has a similar view on measles. She is 67 and her and all her siblings had measles as did me and most of my cousins.She also thinks people don't want to nurse their children properly anymore due to the pressures of modern life which I tend to agree with as my kids pick up everything going from people sending their kids to school/nursery ill and I end up taking time off - I am sat here right now with a poorly one!. I know measles is scary but we have lost familiarity with it which makes it more scary. I am all for preventing things but like other posters I am distrusting of some of the info it is all too commercialised.

"She also thinks people don't want to nurse their children properly anymore due to the pressures of modern life "

You know this is abject nonsense, right. I don't want anyone I love to catch measles because I am too lazy to care for them.

"I vaccinated my son, and I would vaccinate any more that I have. On time. Because it affords them protection in their young life "

But children don't need protection against Rubella, for example. Your son never needed a rubella vaccination because he will never be pregnant. Imagine you have a daughter one day. If she has rubella as a child (so mild that most parents don't even know their DC have had it) she will be immune for life. But if you vaccinate her as a baby, she won't get a chance for this and will be stuck with waning vaccine immunity which may or may not protect her when pregnant.

All my kids are fully vaccinated.

I had rubella as a tot when my mum was pregnant with DB. Mum had never knowingly had rubella.

The immunoglobulin injection and the subsequent fear filled pregnancy she went through stand out as very unpleasant times in her life.

@Clalpolly yay my first biscuit!!!

I think it's a valid point in terms of how people are reluctant to deal with illness though. I know I have done it myself on occasion you are so busy you know they may be ill and you just don't know what to do if you take them in they're ill and if you don't and stay at home they're fine. Whilst my mum worked most of her friends didn't and it was more common for kids to have 2 weeks off with an illness etc than it is now.

I'm not saying it's right but I think it does exist and if vaccines can prevent child being v ill and all the goes with it that's good, but as I said it explains our fear of them ha we aren't used to seeing anymore.

I'm immunocompromised. I rely on herd immunity to stop me getting measles. Enjoy your biscuit.
I take time off unpaid to care for my sick child if I have no annual leave left.
Your mum is talking rubbish.