Dh wants to get dsd here, right now!

[FishyCustard]

Yes, I know. I'm taking my own life in my hands posting this on 'Aibu' but a decision is being forced on me quite quickly and I need to know if Iabu.

Background: DH and I started going out when dsd was six. Dsd's mum had left DH for another man two years previously.

Fast forward to today, dsd is now 14. We now have dd 4 (who is autistic and was diagnosed last year at 3, she is in the more severe side of the spectrum) and ds who has just turned 1.

My relationship with dsd used to be really good, however around two years after me and then do got together we started to have trouble with Dsd's mum.

This first post would be miles long if I went in to all that, it's going to be long enough as it is. Suffice to say there was conflict (police involved at one point after she assaulted Dh) and that it really affected poor dsd.

We went from being very close to her practically ignoring me these last few years. As we didn't get to see her except during school holidays (her mum moved her very far away) Dh was a bit of a Disney dad, which he admits.

As examples:

If I leave any cosmetics on the bathroom she will empty them all out and refill them with water.

She doesn't tend to eat any of the meals I cook and willl sat she is not hungry (then eat from a Bombay of crap, chocolate and crisps, that comes along with her)

She will not come downstairs until 3pm at least, every day she is here, then has tea and goes back up until I and the dc are upstairs. When she will come down.

Over the last year or so I've stayed upstairs after seven, because I hear he happily chatting to her dad and think she needs that alone time.

She won't pick up after herself, she leaves wads of chewing gum stuck under sofas and tables that I have to find before one of the dc chokes on them. She leaves rubbish where it falls.

She spends every moment, literally from the second she opens her eyes to 4am on her phone.

Anytime I've attempted to talk to her about this she starts crying to her dad or just goes silent and blanks me.

I'm not a monster, I hope I'm not. It's just feels so unfair when I'm trying to teach dd to pick up after herself but can't say a word to dsd.

Anyway, to the heart of the matter.

Dsd's mum has just called DH on the phone, the first time she's spoken to him in four years!

Dsd has been hurting herself, truanting from school (the police have been involved numerous times) and is now being helped by cahms. She says she is being screamed at by dsd.

Also apparently this has come about because of Dad's mums partner (the same om she left Dh for) has attempted suicide. And she has gotten in to a bad crowd at school who all do this sort of thing.

Dh's ex wants him to call dsd and talk to her. It's all a bit of a shock as none of us knew this was going on (Dh has regular skypes with dsd but she never mentioned it)

Dh is, this moment, talking to mil on the phone about going over to get her now. And he has also just said that his ex said that dsd cannot be shouted at or upset in any way or she might commit suicide.

Mil and fil are on their way here to talk with us.

My head is spinning. I'm trying to figure out how to voice my concerns without sounding like an evil witch. I undertand how Dh feels, I love her too, but I have to think of ds and dd too.

I just want to say,

'No, Dh hang in a minute. I know your upset but I feel like you aren't considering everyone else in this family.

I agree dsd needs help but I do not want her living here if it's going to be business as usual.

If she comes she follows the rules of the house, including no devices upstairs, learning to clean up after herself and spending some family time with us.'

Aibu?

I think she needs to come to your house now, sorry. Things are clearly at a crisis point and her dad is the one she needs.

However, you need to have a proper conversation with your husband, explaining your very reasonable concerns, and telling him that he needs to take responsibility for ensuring appropriate behaviour from her, including listening to you and doing what you say. But it's not going to be perfect overnight, especially with everything else she's got going on. You're both going to have to compromise a bit.

Wow. Yes OP I can understand your fears especially as when she has stayed you've effectively had to remove yourself upstairs for her to communicate with her dad. And he hasn't in all those times pulled her up on her attitude or sticking chewing gum on sofas and inappropriate places (that is gross) and has generally, it appears, panderedntomher whims .... which I can totally understand in trying to maintain a relationship. But he hasn't been consistent with the routine you BOTH expect ... I'm guessing he agrees with the routine with both your DC and they don't do this.

Yes she has massive MH issues currently. Yes I would want to grab her and try and keep her safer than she appears to be at the present time and yes I would be fearful if I didn't try everything possible to persuade her to come and her self harm became more severe and even possibly fatal.

Tough one. But crying out for help comes in many forms. She can say she doesn't want to come to test how much her dad loves her as she probably knows she's difficult.

My musings which may be way off mark but added for thought and discussion

He is her Dad. He has to try. You have to support him....How could things progress if you didn't? BUT... groundrules have to be established...once the dust settles it isn't all about your DSD's needs - you will need to discuss how it can work going forward....how very difficult for all. I know how hard it is....I wish you luck ...you appear to be pretty balanced though so maybe your influence will be good. Your lives are about to be turned upside down though ....

I agree that dsd needs to be out of the environment she's in which is toxic and doing her no good. I don't think she should be staying with you, not initially anyway, if she is hurting your other dc. Your DH has a responsibility to do right by his daughter and help her any way he can but that shouldn't be at the expense of your other dc. Best solution for now seems to be grandparents. Then you can start working on your relationship with her while she is there and if things improve you can then decide if you want her living with you. That seems to be the only option for now

I disagree that the dsd is the most important person in this, all of the children are equally important. Moving her 3.5 hours away in an instant sounds like a very bad idea to me, glad to hear that she's not going to be uprooted.

Her parents have utterly utterly failed this child. It's in no way unreasonable that you don't want the fall out of their crap parenting to fall onto you and to affect your children. Of course you feel sorry for this girl but you have not been allowed to be any kind of parental figure to her so clearly she doesn't respect you or her father. if she can go and stay with your husband's mother then that might be the best thing but to be honest both of the girls parents should have put down boundaries years ago and now they are reaping the rewards of that. You sound like you have done your best and have been hindered at every turn by your husband. Youre right, you can't have your children exposed to this dysfunction unless your husband is willing to make some massive changes in the way his daughter is parented.

I've seen where this path ends for quite a few troubled teens and it is totally heartbreaking

I really don't want that for her.

I don't know how much of this is the new crowd she's hanging around with.

I'm not on Facebook but sil is and she says Dsd's Facebook wall is covered in bloody anime pictures depicting self harm and her best friends are all doing it too.

It's fucking terrifying.

I don't know what we can do though. Dh is still on the phone to dsd. He offers here and mil's to live but she's insisting everything is fine and she wants to stay there.

Whoever said it was probably my fault, that is not fair.

I love her and doted on her when we had 50/50. After her mum assaulted Dh and they lived away she started getting distant. He'd confronted her over things dsd had told us (she'd told dsd I would have a baby soon that would replace her, that she should cut all my long blonde hair off etc)

I tried to fix things, organising days out, treats for her. Leaving so she could have one on one with her dad. Nothing worked.

I will admit, as dd's needs got more complex I just left her some space more and more. And we are where we are today.

When someone is at crisis point it isn't the right moment to land them with a load of new (to them) boundaries. You'll both need to build trust with her at first, and keep the boundaries just about the really big stuff. Then, as trust becomes established, you can, together, agree on fair house rules, for everyone.

Underthemoonlight

So should OP just continue to let dsd hurt the younger children and ignore the OP? What kind of example is that to the younger kids?

The dsd needs boundaries and OP isn't allowed to give them so her hands are tied.

Given the circumstances I think the safety of the DSD is paramount and that she is in a safe environment before focusing on previous issues.

X post - my comments were assuming she comes to stay with you, short term or long term.

I hope the way forward becomes clear for her and you all. It sounds so worrying.

The turning point seems to have been when you and dh were in conflict with her mother, her mother assaulted your husband and police were called?

I can't help thinking that her mother has turned her dd against you and filled her head with ideas? The poor girl has then essentially had to take sides.
I don't know if this is true but dsd must be very confused. A lot of her behaviour (eg.sabotaging your make up) sounds like a cry for attention at the very least.

Everyone's interests must be taken into account. That includes the best interests for dsd.
If she is adamant she doesn't want to come to your house, then it doesn't sound viable to force her.

This crisis has shone a spotlight on lots of other things for you. Aside from the immediately crisis (and it doesn't sound like she'll be coming anyway), you have a DH problem if he allows her to behave like that in your home.

It's not your fault. If anything, a child without boundaries is more likely to go off the rails.

I would consider my relationship with DH if I was you, with a view to asking him to leave as he doesn't seem to consider you at all.

Maybe the grandparents are the best option considering her parents have let it come to this and you obviously believe your children are far more important than the existing ones.

She needs love and stability, it's little wonder she doesn't want to move to yours.

She needs to leave that school, she needs a parent who gives a damn. At the moment I think that's you. Get her to come, give her boundaries, and ensure your DH supports you. Sometimes a child needs tough love. She'll thank you for it later.

If needs be you can take your kids and stay with your in laws.

Fishy - it is an absolute nightmare. Total nightmare, and you have more than enough to contend with dd and her needs.

Any parent would be baulking at this situation....and it sounds like you have tried so hard to connect and look after, but it sounds conditional when she is expected to give back 50/50. She is not in any kind of condition to give back, she is in a very dark and dangerous place.

You may be ready to throw in the towel and call it a day (and who would blame you) but this situation really will define everyone and everything for years to come no matter whether you walk away or not, if something happens to that child everyone is accountable.

She didn't need space, she needed love. She needed a mother that wasn't suicidal and a father who wasn't wrapped up with his new family. She needed someone to look out for her. It is not too late to be that someone.

No, Dsd's mum hasn't tried to commit suicide, her partner did. The other man.

I don't know what we can do if she is saying everything is fine and she doesn't want to come to mil's or here.

Ideally I think it could work out if she moved into mils (even if Dh moved in there too for a while, that might help, my mum could help me with dd- she's a two person job sometimes)

Then maybe moved in here when she could have some normal family boundaries in place. I'm not a strict disciplinarian at all, but I would like us all to be following the same sort of general courtesy 'rules'.

"f she comes she follows the rules of the house, including no devices upstairs, learning to clean up after herself and spending some family time with us"

You can't treat her 'exactly as you would treat' your dd and DS, because she isn't them. She is a deeply unhappy troubled teen and has been all this time she has been acting out over the petty acts of sabotage, make up, gum, etc. She is acting this way because she is disturbed and unhappy. And has MH issues.

It's way behind you laying down boundaries over tidiness.

Do you not get this?

Poor girl. No adults in her life who put her first. Her Dad would but he has you... and also friendship groups are crucial to girls this age so it is understandable that she doesn't want to move.

She needs security, safety, compassion and someone to be on her side.

and you obviously believe your children are far more important than the existing ones.

Existing ones? You know OP's SN child, and her baby do actually exist, don't you?

Hasn't OP explained she and dsd were talking and getting on til 2 years ago? This means there have been several years where they were okay together. Something has made the child change, and obviously we can't tell what exactly that is. But there are in fact 3, not one, vulnerable children in this family. My reading of it is dh's ex wants her child to live away from her because she's gone off the rails and she can't cope. But the child doesn't want to move from her school or her social group. And she doesn't want to move into her father's home. I can't tell if the plan is for a short,long or permanent move. But OP does need to see this from the needs of her younger children too. She doesn't say if they have space for another permanent member of the household, but presumably there is space at the mother's. Another reservation I'd have is the girl moving area and losing contact with the support team ( child psych etc she's already building a useful relationship with). And, will the girl feel she's being punished by being moved?

All in all, l don't think you are being unreasonable, Fishy, to have reservations. I think the situation is very much more complicated than many posters seem to suggest.

it will never change unless clear boundaries are put in place in a loving, caring way with all of you involved in that.

This ^ as Lexie says.

To me this sounds like a child who is crying out for someone to love her enough to provide her with boundaries. This isn't to say she won't fight them tooth and nail, but she needs them. Lack of boundaries, even if it seems like "freedom" is actually very frightening for children (and although she is in her teens, she is still a child). They are not mature enough to cope with making their own choices and decisions at an adult level.

I would think yourDSD has been left to God and good neighbours for many years as her mother's focus has been on her new partner. Fear in children often surfaces as aggression - I think she is trying (unconsciously) to force you and her father the take a stand against her - though it won't be an easy thing to do.

I absolutely agree with you OP that you need to consider your own two very young children. However, your husband sounds like a good man - many blokes just turn their backs on their first families when they get a second. Your DH hasn't done that and all credit to him - he really needs to step up to the mark as regards discipline though, for everyone's sake.

I think that yourDH's ex has no right to emotionally blackmail the two of you by suggesting that DSD mustn't be upset in any way as otherwise she may try to kill herself. If her mental health is so very frail she needs to be in a secure unit, or receiving medical help in some form. Units for vulnerable people have very strict disciplinary rules because they need structure and boundaries, and that seems to be what your DSD sadly lacks.

I suggest you get her out of the situation (she must be under huge stress, as she will be frightened by her mother's and her step-dad's behaviour), and then you and your DH have a good talk about how you are going to manage the situation.

Perhaps it would be better for her to go to her grandparents - but not if they are going indulge her behaviour. She needs to learn to behave appropriately, and she needs to getaway from her peer group, as she won't change when she is receiving encouragement from them.

I don't envy you - but I feel that many people on here are being very harsh with you. This can't be easy to cope with.

I'm really sorry OP. You are caught between a rock and a hard place and none of it is your fault. I think the blame lies squarely with your dh, for not parenting her properly and for not supporting you earlier.
I wouldn't agree to this unless dh was willingly going to support you. You have to have rules - dsd needs them as much as you do. No one is doing her any favours by not setting limits. And I agree that your little children must be protected. This is their home.

I think going to gps is the right move, for now at least. She will have their undivided attention, dad will be close by and you can work on improving your relationship with her in time.

I didn't think the mother was suicidal? The OP said dsd's step grandmother had attempted suicide?

Are you me? I could literally have written this, almost word for word. It's fucking awful. We can't have DSD living here, for a number of reasons, not least that I genuinely believe it would end in my two children having divorced parents.

Very difficult situation. Main piece of advice is to make sure you look after yourself as your kids need you.

That sounds like a good interim idea - her & dh moving to mils for a while