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Tory Government’s benefit cap is unlawful and causes 'real misery for no good purpose', High Court rules

398 replies

Skutterfly · 22/06/2017 11:23

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/benefit-cap-judicial-review-welfare-payments-government-loses-lawsuit-court-case-judge-misery-a7802286.html

Finally

OP posts:
makeourfuture · 22/06/2017 17:27

MsHoolies those figures are staggering. So much for a free market economy

Truth!

Maxandrubyrubyandmax · 22/06/2017 17:30

T bh I think £20k cap is too high. You can rent a 2 bed in many areas for less than £500 a month leaving you £1200 for bills etc with no childcare to pay. So say £200 per month for utilities £400 for food £100 for odds and sods still leaves you with £500. No perscriptio chArges, dental, commuting, school dinners. If you can't afford to pay rent in your area for that move like people who work have to. Saw today there were a shortage of fruit pickers how about if you claim benefits you have to do that. The only people who should be helped are people with disabilities and illnessesthat stop them working and short term unemployed. Most illnesses and disabilities you can work with. Apart from treatment times my dad continued working with cancer so have several colleagues. That way there would be more available for people who need and deserve it! Wish I had that much unallocated cash. Welfare should be a safety net not a lifesyle choice

speedywell · 22/06/2017 17:31

As said most people get nowhere near the benefit cap. It is mis-reperted to enrage and divide people. To pit us all against each other rather than looking at the bigger picture.

The cap was simply a grasping means to save money and a weak attempt to apply pressure to high rents, by punishing indivdual tenants when it is the housing shortage and structural economic issues that are the problem.

The Tories love to place emphasis on the individual tyring to sort out what the govt won't/ can't, but couldn;t give a toss about whether it is even possible or not.

Many people on benefits will find it almost impossible to move house because of the prejudice that LLs have against benefit tenants. So moving is very often not even an option. And with less and less money coming in, people cannot afford the moving fees, agent fees, removals etc, or in particular the rent up front that might just, just get them a new house.

And that is ignoring the structural issues/ problmes of removing thousands of poor people from the south east! Because high rents exist for almost everywhere within 1 1/2 hours of London, not just London itself.

The Tories just give out this bullshit about taking individual responsibility and cutting red tape etc but do nothing to actually enable people. Rather they trap them with a special combination of both intentional policy and complete ineptitude to even bring about what they 'say' they believe in. (And that isn't the empowerment and freedom of the average working person)

Jellymuffin · 22/06/2017 17:32

I hate the infantilisation of society! People born in or around London or any other desirable area are forced to MOVE OUT if they can't afford to live there! Why should we hold these people's hands all the time - why are their needs and wants more valid than others? I have a friend who lived in London with her boyfriend, both professionals on a reasonable wage. He decided he didn't want to be with her anymore, she had to move out of London and give up her much loved job as could no longer afford to live there - where's the people shouting about her having to relocate away from the life she loved?

FinallyThroughTheRoof · 22/06/2017 17:32

So a high court judge says its inhumane and you want to lower it even further?

How can you even admit such thoughts?

FinallyThroughTheRoof · 22/06/2017 17:33

I was addressing maxandruby.

But also all the other benefit bashers who have eaten the daily mail for breakfast.

FizbotheClown · 22/06/2017 17:36

Oh give over. Nobody has bashed those on benefits just questioned the system and arguments on here.

And yawn to the Daily Mail. Is it not possible to have a grown up debate without referring to the Mail when you get an argument you don't like.Confused

Thisarmingman · 22/06/2017 17:37

Yeah Fizbot, why isn't everyone in London a doctor? Idle bastards haven't even got the excuse of being northern to blame for their lack of aspiration.

AndNowItIsSeven · 22/06/2017 17:40

Max and Ruby if an average families rent was only £500 a month, they wouldn't be receiving £20k in unemployment benefits.

speedywell · 22/06/2017 17:41

Jellymuffin I'm sure your forend would find a lot of supprt and sympathy amongst people in low incomes. It si why we need to do something politically at a national level.

MaxandRuby that is nonsense. We pay 550 for a 1 bed flat on an estate and it wasn't the most expensive, in the south but not near London. Spend some time on Rightmove and you will see you are sadly very wrong.

FizbotheClown · 22/06/2017 17:42

There isn't a lack of aspiration in London.Seaside towns have low aspiration hence the extra funding( long overdue having been ignored when the focus has been on cities and London in particular). No idea how many are in the North.

That said there is a North South divide.

FinallyThroughTheRoof · 22/06/2017 17:43

I wouldnt mention it if people didnt spout lines from it word for word.

Its mentioned a lot because so many people churn out its benefit bashing shite on here.

eynesbury · 22/06/2017 17:45

Why does questioning the benefits system always seem to = benefit 'bashing' on here? Hmm

JamieXeed74 · 22/06/2017 17:47

We could come up with an imaginative solution, building caravan parks near farms so people who can't live within the benefits cap can go live there to do fruit picking. Even provide them free childcare when they are working.

FinallyThroughTheRoof · 22/06/2017 17:47

Because people slag off those on benefits? Hmm even after a judge said the system is already inhumane

Nasty ugly views.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 22/06/2017 17:49

I can sort of understand the judgement as it is sole parents of children under two as it is before the free hours but I think abolishing it entirely wouldn't be the best move.

FinallyThroughTheRoof · 22/06/2017 17:50

Yes lets build workhouses.

Or rather WtF

MsHooliesCardigan · 22/06/2017 17:52

Can we please not turn this into yet another tedious London bashing thread? It's been quite shit here recently. The irony is that if all the poor people in London and the SE moved en masse to the North, everyone would complain about house prices going up and not being able to get a GP appointment.

JamieXeed74 · 22/06/2017 17:53

Because people slag off those on benefits?

No its not 'people' on benefits that are being slagged off. Its people who wont even work part time and expect to be able to live in the most expensive city in the country because they feel entitled and expect people who actually work for less money to pay for it.

speedywell · 22/06/2017 17:54

How about agriculturally tied housing for seasonally employed workers so that normal people can live in the countryside again?!

Without subsidised/ cheap housing no one except a migrant worker with no permanent home can afford to be available for this kind of work.

But I think done right, tied farm housing could provide a year round home for non-migrants where seasonal work could be supplemneted with other work. But only if the houses are subsidied. I think a lot of people could do well and be happy with that arrangment.

This heavy reliance on cheap migrant labour is merely evidence of someting being very broken

harshbuttrue1980 · 22/06/2017 17:57

I think that denying "the poor" the fact that they can make choices is disempowering. I'm as working class as they come (brought up in council house, mum was single and on benefits etc). I qualified as a teacher and was working in the north, bought a flat and was made redundant, so I sat on my ass on benefits. No, wait, I didn't! I rented out my flat, moved 400 miles on my own to the SE to get a job and lived in a grotty annexe. A few promotions later and I rent my own nice flat. I work in London and can't afford London prices so, guess what?? I live in Slough and commute in. Absolutely loads of people here have come from other areas to find work, so I'm nothing special, just one of many.
People who defend endless benefits seem to think that most people aren't able to retrain, get promotions, move to a cheaper area, put up with living in a grotty place temporarily to make a better life eventually. Its patronising and wrong. Most humans have a choice and can do something to make their own lives better. SOME people with disabilities are an exception, but again don't write them all off - the teacher in a wheelchair in my school gets furious when people assume he doesn't work or have an education.
Benefits were always intended as a short-term safety net when they were invented, and to me they shouldn't be a lifestyle choice.

FizbotheClown · 22/06/2017 17:57

Not London bashing at all.Hmm Simply pointing out some very pertinent points. Is that not allowed?

Believeitornot · 22/06/2017 17:57

Tbh I think £20k cap is too high. You can rent a 2 bed in many areas for less than £500 a month leaving you £1200 for bills etc with no childcare to pay

What about in London?

Or are only the well off allowed to live in London?

TBH housing and living costs are far too high. Wages are far too low.

It's ridiculous to think that low wage earners or those on benefits should just suck it up and live in areas with low house prices.

speedywell · 22/06/2017 18:00

Fitzbot if everyone aspired so high, who would clean and sweep and do the less aspirational jobs?

Of thats right the migrant workers.... otherwise we'd have to pay a cleaner as much as a doctor just to get someone to do it, and we can; thave that can we.

So we get high immigration to keep down wages leading to a housing shortage and high rents leading to a high housing benefit bill for low parid workers and then the govnerment doesnt like this so they cut the benefits, people die, move away, go into pverty to pay for commuting to low paid jobs, areas gentrify, house prices rise, and the spread continues outwards pushing the poorly paid before it like a flood.. so rent and house price rises coming to your cheap area soon, along with lot of migrants to keep the wage bill down. Happy Fitzbot and Jamie?