to think DH is rewarding the DCs poor behaviour?

[Busybecca]

Following on from my thread about DH babying our DC and allowing them to be rude and dictate to him, we've been talking about our different approaches to try and find some middle ground. Another aspect of parenting we have different views on is reactions to bad behaviour/not listening/not getting their own way.

Tonight DDs (3 and 4) were playing with the water table. DD (3) had a pot of water and went down to the washing line and deliberately tipped it on the washing. I went out and asked her not to, explaining that I wanted it to get dry - not even more wet. A few minutes later, she did it again. I returned and warned her that if she refused to listen and did it one more time then I'd remove her pots altogether. She did it again, I removed her pots. She cried and screamed for a bit and I reiterated what I'd asked her not to do, how she hadn't listened and that I'd explained and followed through with the consequence.

If DH had been in this situation, he would have moved the washing to prevent having to ask DD to stop. If I had been there and told him I needed the washing dry and to leave it out then he'd have asked DD to stop at least ten times before removing the pots. He would then carry her off to do something else to cheer her up, giving her his full attention while ignoring her sister who was being well behaved.

IMO he's rewarding poor behaviour with attention and alternative activities and I think they won't learn unless they have a chance to feel the consequences of their actions. The other day, DD (4) kept poking DD (3) in the ear while she was drawing and rather than tell her to stop, DH carried her off and gave her her weekend magazine she receives if she's been good He thinks this is distraction and works as it stops tears and fall out. I think sometimes there needs to be tears and fall out and that conflict can't always be avoided to keep the peace. He thinks I'm being harsh on them and I'm struggling to see a middle ground because he absolutely believes he isn't rewarding them.

What do you think?

busybecca What is the hmmmm face for? I am a qualified teacher with a lot of experience with younger kids - not saying that makes me the font of all knowledge, but I do think I have a basic knowledge of child development. My own kids are well-behaved but confident.

I didn't say anywhere that children that age are incapable of listening - that is you bringing your own issues to the table, I think. They very much are capable of listening. But to your daughter, throwing water over the washing was far more fun than not doing it, and she couldn't see a clear reason not to do it. She has never dealt with wet laundry, so she can't compute the consequences.

Some children may OBEY you. That doesn't mean they are able to say why they are doing it or what exactly it is that they are doing. Often they are just scared of being yelled at.

Like someone else said, why ask if you are convinced you're right?

Aren't we all here to support each other? Not to make little hmmm faces when people are just trying to help you?

'If DH had been in this situation, he would have moved the washing to prevent having to ask DD to stop.'

It's the 'IF' it didn't actually happen you are semising although somewhat probably quite accurately.

If you've chatted and found some middle parenting ground you need to work together, not watch out for every little thing he has or may have done differently.
And I know it's harder than it sounds believe me.

You need to calm down. They are 3 and 4. You don't have to engage with them in such a dictatorial fashion you know. Have you read any parenting books?

You do come across as quite severe on them given the ages involved.

penggwn People have different parenting styles. One person's dictatorial is the next person's good discipline. That's fine. I'd say all opinions are welcome here, aren't they?

I avoid saying anything that sounds like a challenge when dealing with a 3 year old. So, I would stay away from: "If you do xxxx then I will do yyyy".

Instead, I would probably say either: "No water on the laundry- water goes on the plants", or " One more pot of water on the laundry and then it has to dry". If the child ignored my words I would take away the water, but without talking about it. I think this avoids the feeling that you are setting up a situation where the child feels challenged to oppose you; you want to create a feeling of being on the same side.

Sometimes saying: "One more time and then we stop because of ----" lets a child save face, while also teaching the right behaviour. I have found this face-saving technique incredibly helpful over the years.

Someone posted on a chat thread a few weeks ago something profound which of course I can't properly remember . It was about wanting to teach her kids not to obey mindlessly but to do the right thing because they know it's right.

Can anyone else remember the thread/post? I have definitely been guilty of the 'must teach obedience' thing before now and that made me think quite hard about whether whatever it is I am asking my son to do is teaching him to obey me or to think for himself.

claraschu I definitely agree that saying anything that could sound like a challenge is often incredibly tempting for three-year-olds to respond to with defiance. Some of them just can't resist and are desperate to see if you will follow through. They want to assert their authority.

I like what you said about being on the same team. That is something I use a lot in my relationship when things get a bit heated or iffy. It's good to think about your shared goals. You and the child both want for them to grow up happy, healthy and confident. What is the best way for you both to achieve this?

In the end, I just think it comes down to two things: hat throwing water on the towels after she was asked to doesn't mean she is going to be running a drugs cartel at the age of 18. And that if you have different parenting styles, at some point, you need to sit down and discuss and compromise. Because if the child is confused about the boundaries, that is only going to make things worse.

pen I don't really get your point, sorry.

If someone calls a parenting style dictatorial, they have the freedom to express that view, sure. Not how I would have worded it, but ok. If someone else says they don't think it's dictatorial: also fine.

The OP asked for opinions. She is getting them and I think most people have been quite helpful.

Could you and DH sit down and agree a simple list of rules that you will both consistently enforce, and appropriate responses if they aren't followed. It's much easier to be consistent if you start with a small set of absolutely crucial things, even if this means you need to relax about less important things - you can always add more rules later as their control grows. I'm also a great believer in redirecting to an acceptable alternative rather than forbidding - e.g. We don't throw water at the washing, here's a paintbrush so you can paint the fence with water. It makes it much easier to get compliance.

I think some of these parenting styles discussed on here will end up raising spoilt brats to be perfectly honest! You know the type, I read a lot of threads on here about how appalled people have been at unruly, rude and self entitled children running wild without discipline and if they're ever asked to stop doing something, face the wrath of the parent.

Children do need to learn consequences of their actions. I just can't see the long term benefit to the child from never being told "No" and being led away to get a reward.

My youngest brother was raised like this. My mum did it for an easy life (at the time). He turned into a complete spoilt brat who felt like everyone and everything should revolve around him and would regularly have tantrums at 16 years old just like my toddler.

OP FWIW I would have done the same (maybe 1 less warning) to my 21 month old DD with the water and the washing. She sometimes likes to swing of the washing on the line, I tell her "no, don't do that it will get dirty" and move HER away. It wouldn't renter my head to take the washing in just in case she did it again and I didn't want to tell her off!

pen True. Not sure what the point of adding hysteria by saying stuff like 'are we not allowed to tell our children what they should do?' though, when the poster clearly did not say that.

Then it just descends into a stupid discussion that no one even wants to have about how the poster didn't say that.

Better to just clearly voice your opposition instead of putting words into posters' mouths, I reckon.

Your Dh definitely sounds like hes scared of ever upsetting his DDs and therefore needs to be "the good guy" all the time. Its possibly something in his past which is making him nervous, he needs to try and be very honest about where this is coming from. His approach is all well and good in some situations but overall its not in their long term best interests to be sold the idea that there are no rules or consequences.

There's noting wrong with a bit of distraction / redirection now and again but parents have to step up and enforce some boundaries and if that means consequences then so be it. School has rules, society has rules, its how our world works. Kids who are not taught to respect the rules always struggle in life.

I always used (and still do) one warning followed by a consequence.

Distraction is great as long as it's not reward heavy.

I'm all for children feeling the weight of their actions. Removing the water pot was good. Although probably I would have encouraged her to water paint the pavement or fence initially.

You need boundaries but also to pick your battles.

Kids that age will seize on anything they think winds you up and do it deiberately. If you make a huge fuss about every little thing you will end up with constant power struggles and running battles.

pen I never said that you weren't calm.

I already expressed my view.

Nor am I policing anyone's right to air their view.

I have noticed, however, that mn tends to be full of people jumping on each other every time they express a view, then massively inflating what the other person said, often stretching the meanings of words to the point of ridiculousness.

To me, that is not helpful, nor is it useful.

Children who are raised to be unthinkingly obedient to their parents are sometimes unthinkingly obedient to everyone

Funnily enough, the opposite also seems to be true - children who don't have constraints on their behaviour at home are often unable to constrain their behaviour in other situations where it has a negative impact on others.

meh, water on washing - physics experiment. see how long it takes to dry/change colour in the sun? it is water. it will dry.

distract and redirect to water on plants.

she got a lot of attention for a minor issue.

moving washing not the right answer why would you? it will dry regardless. she would soon get bored of throwing water on the washing.

natalia which is why we strive to reach a happy medium: children who are confident enough to stand up to others while respecting the rights of others.

I actually think what the op did was appropriate. Is it not our job as parents to raise children who can tell the difference between appropriate and inappropriate behaviour? You told her it was unacceptable, gave her chance to modify her behaviour, she didn't so there were consequences which, imo, were matched to the behaviour. There are consequences for everything in life and I don't think it's a bad thing to teach children that. Otherwise as they get older and their behaviour becomes more dangerous or destructive they've already learned they can get away with it and rules mean nothing. From my experience kids with rules seem to be more happy generally and it also means that you can enjoy your children more and don't end up resenting them because you're always policing their actions