BF not speaking to me because I don't want to do a road trip in America

[MissionItsPossible]

Sorry if this turns out to be long I will try to keep it as short as possible.

Okay my boyfriend (we are gay) mentioned yesterday that he wants us to go to America in the form of a road trip as our next holiday going through states. I pulled a face and he asked why not and then I basically said I wouldn't want to go because of the number of stories about the police shooting black men (I am mixed race black/white, BF is white). He said I was being stupid and ridiculous and we wouldn't have to worry about that because we are tourists (don't see how that makes any difference tbh?)

He pointed out that I have been to America before but I said that that was when I was a child on a family holiday to Disneyland at Florida, so I couldn't exactly refuse to go, and also because I was a child, I wasn't aware of things like that at that age so it wasn't the same thing. He then said I had said in the past I would love to go on a road trip (which is true, I had actually said it a couple of times in the past but my stance has changed in the last year or two seeing so many stories after stories regarding the issue). And I said yes, he was right that I did but now I've changed my mind and don't want to do one.

He was getting frustrated by this point and pointed out we have been to loads of countries where they have armed police but I argued back that those countries may have armed police but you don't hear story after story of how they shot and killed someone. Tbh although race plays a big part of why I don't want to go, I am scared of their police mentality (or what I perceive it to be) of shoot first and ask questions later applied to anyone.

He called me a stupid selfish little cunt and I shouted at him to get out my house, which he did, and we haven't spoken since.

I am prepared to be told IABU. Millions of people visit and live there every day of all races and don't get shot and manage to live their day to day lives, but I just have this sort of feeling that something would. I don't know if it's the driving thing - maybe because a lot of these cases seem to happen in cars. I can imagine driving and getting stopped and pulled over constantly if it's two guys in a car, one who is non-white. Maybe I am being stupid I don't know, but I've just got a gut feeling.

AIBU? Should I just go as I might end up enjoying it and it would be a great experience?

It doesn't matter what your reasons are for not wanting to go on holiday to America. You have just as much right to have your say and hold your own opinions. I don't think your BF respects you at all. Tell him he can go and have his holiday but you won't be pressured (bullied) into doing something you don't want to do. It's a lot of money to spend on a trip that you may not enjoy, and resent having to do what is his choice essentially, and he may then expect you always to do what he wants. Please think hard about whether you want this kind of relationship.

The issue isn't the holiday. It's the fact that you said you didn't want to do something - with good reason IMO - and your boyfriend threw a tantrum.

You may not be bothered about the words that he used, but you should be bothered about the fact that what he said indicates a complete lack of respect and care for you. That reason alone would be enough to make me rethink the relationship.

Don't form a long-term relationship/marriage with someone who treats you with contempt. It will corrode your love for them until one day you wake up, realising that you have wasted years on a selfish tosser that doesn't actually give a shit about you.

Having just seen the Philandro Castile footage - good God.
www.theguardian.com/culture/2017/jun/22/late-night-tv-philando-castile-trevor-noah-video
Words fail me.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile
The BBC footage of the four year old is devastating.

Philando

His offence? Driving while black.
How they came back with an acquittal is beyond me.

I don't agree with how he spoke to you and if you don't want to go you shouldn't be pushed into it.
I have to say though i'm on a road trip now, LA to Seattle via many places and I'm loving it. Stunning places, easy drives and lovely people. I'm with my husband and 10 month old

YABU for allowing over-hyped and sensationalist media reports to put you off what could be the trip of a lifetime. Disclaimer: I may be biased but I live in the USA and have put in thousands of road miles seeing a mere fraction of the vast wonders to be seen here.

YADNBU for finding your partner to be a nasty, bullying cuntwaffle. No matter how unfounded your fears, no one has the right to talk that way to someone they claim to love. Dump him and do book yourself that road trip (honest it'll be fine and you'll bloody love it) with someone nicer.

As a Brit who lives in the US, this thread is embarrassing. On every level.

Plenty of places in the world I wouldn't choose to visit right now. The U.S is one of them.

Has your boyfriend calmed down yet, OP? The abuse is not OK, even though you don't seem too perturbed by it.

In the end, YANBU to not like a particular holiday idea, for any reason or none. But if the racist attitudes of police in the US and the chances of being shot by an officer while driving are your reason for not wanting to go, then your perception of risk is not particularly reasonable. in 2016 about 1000 people were shot and killed by police officers in the US. But only 50 were unarmed. In a country of 300 million people. By contrast 40,000 died in road traffic accidents. If you don't want to go on a road trip because it's unsafe, it's not the police you need to worry about. If you aren't worried about traffic accidents, you shouldn't really be worried about the risk of death from a racist cop. It's not unreasonable to be upset by or angry at what happened to Castile and others in US. But as risk goes it's not significant.

On the abuse thing - I would not want to be with someone who used that kind of language to me, but I appreciate that different people have different norms over that kind of thing, so if you don't find it abusive or off putting, I suppose it's neither here nor there. However, having a mardy tantrum and storming off because you don't like his holiday idea and have been shaken up by recent events in the US is a very poor response and I find that possibly more indicative of abuse.

I've lived in the US and there are some strong racist views.
What you don't do whatever colour you are is not end up in the less salubrious places at night. Probably the same rule applies over here.
Stay in your car if the police pull you over - never get out to chat to the officer!!
My DH's secretary always took a gun in her glove pocket if making her annual trip to visit family over several states. She worked in Texas.

If you are in tourist spots and on the road in daytime, then you are ok. People are saying the views on here are ridiculous but not saying where you should or shouldn't go. Texas is pretty racist, possibly miss the southern states. But it depends if you are driving through or spending several days/weeks there.But you won't enjoy it if you are anxious.
Fly to San Francisco and drive Highway 1 to LA then up I 15, is spectacular as are some of the National Parks at the south end of i 15. Grand Canyon and many more in Utah. Visit las vegas. Nebraska is flatter and less spectacular. I don't know the east side.

As a Brit who lives in the US, this thread is embarrassing. On every level

Do you find abusuve relationships embarrassing

And how can you deny the gun culture , the shootings and what happened to Philandro as an isolated example

Shitty post

Thank you for the replies guys. I was surprised at the level of responses saying it was a toxic or abusive relationship. I just don't find that sort of language offensive or intimidating but I was angry which is why I told him to leave. We have since been in contact and he asked me to think about it for next year so I said I would.

I know its such a small chance to happen and I'm probably BU but it was in particular the Castile case as posted above that put me off. I think a general trip I would feel better about but it's just the driving and the fact that a lot of these cases seem to happen in cars. But if I was afraid of everything that I read or watched in the media, I'd be afraid to leave the house and be afraid of hidden dangers lurking in my house so yeah, need to give myself a talking to and just go!

I just don't find that sort of language offensive or intimidating but I was angry which is why I told him to leave

Lovey, if you don't value yourself then how can you expect others to do so?

I don't have an issue with the word 'cunt'. IRL I am rather sweary and I use 'cunt' regularly as part of jokes etc. But you are missing the point that it's not the word that is the problem - it's the context in which its being used. There is a huge difference between jokingly calling someone 'a cunt' if that's normal banter, and having a screaming argument where you tell someone they are 'a cunt'. He could've said that you were a bitch / a wanker / whatever and it still would have been wrong - because using those words against you in anger, shows an inherent lack of care and respect. I'm sweary but one thing I have never done though, is to swear at my husband - or any partner - during an argument and call them names.

We have since been in contact and he asked me to think about it for next year so I said I would

So he's still pushing his agenda? Has he apologised for the way he spoke to you? For having a screaming tantrum and behaving so badly? I wold think very carefully about this relationship because to be honest, he doesn't sound as if he gives a shit about you. Is he the type of person where he's amazing to spend time with as long as he's getting his own way, but as soon as someone says 'no' he turns into a spoiled little brat? I can't imagine anything worse than being in a LTR with someone like this, let alone travelling thousands of miles with them on a road trip.

PaulDacresFeministConscience

There's a lot that's right in your post tbh that I can't deny. I use the word too but would never use it against a partner or a friend during an argument whereas he does when he gets angry. No, he didn't apologise he just tends to cool off and then get back in touch when he's calmed down. I don't feel in danger or scared of him though at all. He is a great guy, just gets stressed easily and it turns into him getting annoyed or angry. BUT I am just listing his bad qualities here and posting about a little thing that happened, if I posted about all the good and nice stuff there'd be loads of posts with SW(stay with)TB!

Bit by people calling it abuse. I don't think so at all, it's just words.. What would you call someone calling you offensive names to manipulate you into bending to their will? That's called abuse where I come from.

If the only way he can counter your arguements is to resort to name calling, it says a lot about him and what he thinks of you.... are you listening?

Are you genuinely concerned for your safety or is this a political statement? Statistics overwhelming show that your more likely to be shot by non law enforcement. My aunt refuses to come to Europe because of the terrorism, conveniently forgetting that she is more likely to be killed where she lives (Chicago) but she's rationalised that almost daily occurrence and her perception of the dangers in Europe are greater.

Your boyfriend is an arse.

Oh I get that none of us is perfect (apart from me, obviously!). But seriously, you need to think very hard about the little things now - because trust me, in 15 years' time what was inconsequential has turned into something so monstrous that you can't live with it a second longer.

My DH doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve. Do I wish he was more demonstrative? Yes. Is it something that I can live with? Yes, because he is a genuinely kind person. He doesn't go in for bunches of flowers or surprise weekends away, but he is very good at everyday touches which actually mean much more to me. He notices when I'm tired, or stressed, or upset. He listens and gives me advice. He protects me when I need it and pushes and challenges me when I don't. I'd far rather have that any day that a bunch of flowers. More importantly, I know that he loves me and that he would stand up for me.

My previous partner was quite emotionally erratic. He'd be fine and then would suddenly take offence at something and go off into a sulk for days on end. The atmosphere was horrible and so corrosive. He justified it by saying that he needed to be quiet and that was his way of dealing with things. But he was completely unwilling to entertain any kind of compromise, despite seeing the effect that his behaviour had on me and how unhappy I was as a result. We were supposed to get married, but I woke up one day and I realised that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life tip-toeing round someone's moods - and potentially trying to shield children from them as well. So I left.

Don't mistake great chemistry, a shared sense of humour and good sex as the sole basis for a long term partnership or marriage. They are great foundations, but it is absolutely crucial that you actually like and respect each other - because if you don't, then when the initial passion fades (which it does), then all you are going to be left with is at best indifference or at worst, contempt.

Final words: My Gran's advice - never ever marry a man who won't apologise (and she's right, BTW).

What ever your reasons for not wanting to go are valid and more to the point they're important to YOU! I hope he cools off and you talk about it, but don't get bullied into it. It's not going to be cheap either!! Surely there is a compromise trip? If he's not willing to be flexible then there is a bigger issue here with your relationship in general. he probably sees it that you are stopping him from fulfilling his dream of the road trip, and what he said I am sure was just the heat of the moment. I think you guys need to sit down and have a chat!!

You absolutely shouldn't 'just go' on the holiday. You have every right to veto a holiday destination choice for whatever reason. You might be wrong about it (a pp made a good point about you being a lot more likely to get killed in a car accident when on a road trip) but your feelings aren't wrong and he should respect that. He could have calmly negotiated and that would be fine. However he totally discounted your feelings and was very rude, if you simply forgive that and go along with what he wants he will forever try this tactic whenever you disagree with him, and probably get worse. If he wants to come back he has to apologise and accept that if you say no about something he doesn't get to mistreat you. I would make a point of not going on that holiday even if some posts here have changed your view on the safety aspect.

I agree with pp that your partners behaviour was abusive, you can decide that you don't think it is, but outbursts of anger with name calling because you don't want to do something (with perfectly valid reasoning) that he wants you to do IS abuse and may lead on to what you see as 'real' physical abuse. If he gets that angry over disagreeing on a holiday destination that would be throwing red flags all over the shop from my perspective.

DP is mixed race, and therefore so is our DD. We wouldn't want to go to America on holiday as a family. I've been many times as a child/teen and obviously as a white woman I have had no issues and seen no racism, but I would not want to go and risk abuse or worse because of being in an interracial relationship, let alone a homosexual interracial one. However that is the case in many parts of the world, but can your partner not even try to understand your concerns? That is an issue in itself if he denies the issues and dangers that you face because of your skin. I wouldn't bet on this relationship lasting.

I KEEP bloody saying on this thread that America is a HUGE place. Some of you are being extremely ignorant saying how 'you wouldn't visit America right now.'

You could travel for days and stay in completely safe areas. Just avoid the States which have clearly stated racism. It's hardly rocket science to find out which ones. You'll hardly 'accidentally' end up 4 days travel the wrong way.

This isn't aimed at you op just fucking sick of the ignorant xenophobia aimed at America as usual on mumsnet.

Loopy please stop with the attitude. Some of us have spent a lot of time in the US, thanks. For what it's worth, the worst racism I've ever heard has been in wealthy upstate New York, the Clinton's stomping ground. So much for only avoiding the notorious places.

Sorry, I missed this when replying to you earlier:

He is a great guy, just gets stressed easily and it turns into him getting annoyed or angry

I bet he doesn't call his boss or colleagues cunts when he gets 'stressed easily' at work. If he has sufficient control to maintain a professional front during employment, then it's entirely his choice how he behaves when he gets angry in his personal life - meaning that if he screams at you and calls you names, then he's choosing to treat you this way. Remember that.

Loopyloppy he mentioned San Francisco that I am keen to visit as I have always wanted to visit there. Racism is racism anywhere but was just a bit nervous about two guys driving in a car

PaulDacresFeministConscience no I don't think he talks to his boss like that maybe his colleagues. I think I downplayed him in my OP cos he's not a bad guy to me.

Again, thanks guys for the replies I think I am gonna go and save up for it and have a great time

Okay I am a straight white, middle aged female who has lived and visited the US on a number of occasions, and I have reservations in visiting at present. A lot of nastiness is coming to the surface - just as it is in the UK (but at least here I really know where to go and what to do).
Being black, mixed race, asian or even worse middle eastern would make the whole thing a lot more concerning.

The story that worries me the most is the off duty Black cop in Missouri.

Now if you go to SF - I would expect you would be pretty safe, and actually California as a whole would be one of the better places.
I'd even think Orlando would be pretty okay (just maybe not staying in the kind of villa we stayed in last time on an estate which is partly residential and partly tourist), but in Florida I wouldn't want to venture far off the beaten track if I were you (unless you had a guide).

But I do also think maybe your bf just doesn't get the racism/different world.

Re the trip - can't see issue, just avoid the dodgier places. I've been across the states and it's like acetal countries rolled into one! Maybe I'd avoid Deep South though.
As for his attitude, it stinks.