To think that discipline has gone mad?

[FaintlyBaffled]

These past two days I've had two instances which have left me a bit WTF
The first one involves DS's best friend (they're 13) who has been punished by the school and his DM for what I would consider an act of childish behaviour, typical of young teenage boys. The crime actually made me snigger a little and I truly don't think I would have had it in me to do more than roll my eyes at DS if it was him. I would also have considered the school to be very high handed but that's another gripe

Today DS has made a slightly odd decision in deciding to walk to school as the bus never turned up. No harm done, he knows the route and has walked it many times when we're out with the dogs- it doesn't even involve crossing any roads (though it's the best part of three miles) The problem is he took two 11yo's with him, both of whose parents are furious as technically they were "missing" for about 30 minutes. Now we live in a quiet rural area and the children all had mobile phones (which none of them thought to use) and were obviously together. As far as I'm concerned it's a piece of poor judgment, not a hangable offence.
I've never really considered myself a soft parent (and DS would certainly never say I was) but I don't think IABU to just shrug my shoulders at this and carry on my day as normal!

Surely the 11 year olds had phones to check with their parents. Your ds did nothing wrong and wasn't responsible for them.
I agree with you about some people seeming to punish children for the most trivial things these days.
however, YABU to confuse punishment with discipline.
two totally different meanings.

"Surely the 11 year olds had phones to check with their parents. Your ds did nothing wrong and wasn't responsible for them."

Well he was if he said "Let's walk, come on, I know the way" which is what I understand from the OP he did.....

If that was the case Bertrand I would expect the 11 year old to text their parents themselves.

I would have been mortified that my child never told me what was going on, anything could have happened. I would have felt like I underestimated my child and proud that my child could make a good decision to make there way to school.

That's how I would have felt.

I said I would assume it was DS's suggestion, I've not actually seen him yet (as I didn't fly up to the school and demand he be pulled out of lessons to check he was alright )
The 11yo's are either years 5 or 6, DS is year 8. The bus is actually a school bus rather than a public service. As we live so rurally we get free school transport, perhaps the younger DC are not normally allowed to travel alone

I am reevaluating myself aged 37 reading this thread. I do have an extremely good relationship with my boss and I realise it wouldn't normally be at all appropriate in the workplace but I draw what your DS did on her notebook sometimes when we're on really long boring teleconferences together or if she leaves it at her desk. It's sort of become a standing joke. Others in the team tend to snigger as much as I do, as does my boss when she finds it.

If only someone had grounded me and not allowed me to go on an end of year trip I would have seen the error of my ways before it was too late.

OP like you, I don't think this is really a big deal. But, as other posters have said being laid back as a parent usually means high expectations of common sense which is how I was raised. I think doing this in a jotter or notebook is one thing. A textbook or someone else's property not ok.

"If that was the case Bertrand I would expect the 11 year old to text their parents themselves."

Yes, so would I. But I would also expect my child to check.

It's more like "If we punish kids for defacing school property, they will hopefully be discouraged from thinking they can get away with moving on to worse acts of vandalism

I'm a firm believer in graduated punishments though. If you come down like a ton of bricks for something minor like this, how do you react to bullying, for example?

And I am gobsmacked at the upset over three secondary school boys walking to school. Do they not smother in so much cotton wool?

It's a sad indictment on modern society that anyone could think that they were wrong for doing this

This! With knobs on!

You had me at basket of grips

So funny

I tend to think what would happen if EVERYONE did this.

So, multiple cocks on books/toilet walls/hallways.

And the strain on services if kids were 'missing' all the time

And then I come to the conclusion that it would be shit and even minor 'offences' should be punished appropriately

It's the parents' responsibility to speak to the 11 year olds about what to do if the bus doesn't turn up and the 11 year olds' responsibility to do it.

I agreeLaurie

Parents, quite understandably, think about these things as if it were the first time their child did it, the only person it affected was them, and they were the only child to do it.

Schools have to think about the effects on everyone

Both over reactions IMO. Parents of 11 year olds should have instilled in them what to do if us does not turn up. Graffiti is just bollocks - worthy of minor punishment but not missing school trip.

The parents of the 11yo's have no right being annoyed with a 13yo. If their children aren't allowed to walk to school if the bus doesn't turn up then they should know what they are supposed to do.

Give your kids a plan what to do when they unexpected happens and you don't end up expecting a 13yo to do your job for you.

Second event - around here they would be at secondary school and teachers generally only really care that children arrive (on time). I'm assuming your son didn't coerce the others into joining him - if he had intimidated them then I would have expected to be called into school.
The first - should be punished but missing a big treat seems an overreaction.

I'm sure the parents of the 11 year olds would have been more annoyed if your DS had buggered off and left them standing at the bus stop alone. It's the parents' fault for not telling their children what to do in the quite likely event of the bus not turning up.

It's all quite odd... You, sniggering at a schoolboy piece of graffiti done by a 13 year old.
It probably only came to the teachers attention because he was arsing about disrupting the class with it, so not all that insignificant.
Three kids walking to school together and your ds getting the blame for "taking" the other two. Is there more to that than you've said??

So to get this straight - DS's friend has drawn a cock on a book belonging to himself - and he's being punished in a ridicuously draconian fashion?

Jesus.

I coach rugby - I've had many a cock drawn in steam on the mirror - I tend to usually mark it "1/10" and then make them all run around the pitch for being daft

I would have thought 13 was a bit old to still be drawing willies. Maybe that's why the school have been what some might think heavy-handed about it. (if I imagine my 2 classes of 13 yr olds, I can't imagine any of them doing it, not at that age) Our school does have a policy on graffiti though- they clean it themselves if it's on a desk or something, and there's a discipline note if it's of an obscene nature. ie a penis.

The school thing- does the school have some kind of "if you're not on the bus you have to let someone know" policy? Again, I'm thinking about our school...anyone coming in to school by a different means, or at a different time, has to bring a note of some kind explaining.

It's schools covering their arses unfortunately. I don't think the 13 yr old should be in any more trouble than the 11 yr olds, but I think they all need a gentle reminder about safety and simply letting people know where they are, especially as it was during (effectively) school time.

I actually think it is all about context, which we can't possibly know from the thread, and even the OP may not be aware of all of the context.

Is the cock drawing the last of a long line of disruptive behaviour and lack of respect for property?

WRT the 11 year olds, some are more mature than others - are they 11 going on 12, or only just turned 11? I think the transition from primary to big school makes a massive difference, so 10 just turned 11, still at primary school is very different to young for their age in big school.

Similarly, someone who has been walking to school for ages and whose parents have allowed them to gradually establish more independence in a controlled manner - well their parents probably wouldn't bat an eyelid, but if this isn't something the 11 year olds have been exposed to, then it's pretty different.

IME children who are 2nd or 3rd siblings are generally more self assured than eldest children, so that can make a huge difference to the expectations of parents as well.

I think there are too many factors for you to be able to dismissively say discipline is gone mad. I honestly don't think it is for you to judge the reaction of other parents either. FWIW I think your 'basket of grips' comment is snide.

That's an excellent post Beryl.

Firstly, a number of schools don't allow mobiles, so they may not have had them. One thing I like about my dc's school is they allow them so things like this are easier to sort out.

Second thing is there is a huge difference between "I know the way to school lets walk it" and "well, if you don't come with me you're going to get into such trouble, I say you're skiving when I get there. You're such a wuss making a fuss about coming"
Or there could be regulations what to do if the bus doesn't come (was back when I was at school) which he encouraged them to ignore.
I suspect there's more of a story from the other side with the 11yos parents.