Is this child neglect or just normal parenting?

[Maman79]

Would you consider this neglect of a child?

-Leaving toddler in bath alone & in front of tv for a few hours while mum sleeps upstairs
-Leaving weedkiller/ fertilizer near a bouncy castle in shed where children could get chemicals on hands/ lick and ingest etc
-Leaving doors unlocked-kids could get out onto road

Every time I hear about a new incident and am wondering how 'endangered' the kids actually are and if there is cause for concern.

If the kids are generally watched in the garden then I think the risk of there being weedkiller in the shed which presumably has a childproof cap on is minimal for eg.
Also we have never locked the front door but I can hear it open from anywhere in the house.

what's your relationship like with the H? I'd tell him and get him to take action. If I am so tired i think i'll fall asleep i make sure i'm in the DC's bedroom, close the door (she can't get it open) and have a scout around for anything else that's not safe in her room.

Bin or lock up the weedkiller - this one seems simple - I know it's not your responsibility but I'd not be able to live with myself if something happened. I got rid of mine after reading about the tragic death of a kid that drank it, if you google it there are a few reports.

Well, I actually disagree with everyone.
Depends on the child. depends on the context. And the age of children. Definitely Not neglect. Possibly endangerment.

Some children touch everything. Some are escapists!! Some aren't!!

Mine never did. I don't lock doors, both my ds's don't touch things they are not supposed to. never have. I don't know why my 2 are like this. I have tonnes and tonnes of friends who have kids who are into everything and have to be watched like a hawk.

I've had playdates where I have had to watch said children like a hawk, all day. I don't mind. But I appreciate that my 2 aren't like that.

My 2 you don't need to. I have no idea why they are like this. I too was a compliant little poppet who was just happy playing with her toys.
I did, years ago leave the children unsupervised all the time, as I pottered about and they played happily. Now both ds's play x box and are oblivious to the fact I'm even in the house at the same time as then, alot of the time!!

So, I think this banding the word 'neglect' around willy nilly, is not right, because real neglect is a VERY serious issue.

When you say "alone in the bath" do you mean "4 year old playing noisily while mum uses loo next door" or "2 year old left out of earshot while mum sleeps/is downstairs".
Doesn't weedkiller have to be in a childproof bottle anyway?

Presumably Oblo though you weren't debilitated by PND and unable to function properly.

This women is ill and unable to supervise her DC's from bed.

I'm sure you were milling around somewhere, and put boundaries in place daily. This mum sounds unable to do this so her children are at greater risk.

Oblomov. Did you leave your 2 yr old in the bath alone while you slept? A child being compliant won't stop them slipping, hitting their head and drowning while you sleep.

I would be wary that if anything happened to one of the children you may end up being blamed.

Are the kids physically in the bath 'whilst she's running it', or are the just sat in the bathroom with the bath running whilst she grabs a towel/clothes etc - if there are just sat in the bathroom this doesn't strike me as any more dangerous than leaving them in any room whilst you grab something.
The shed - my parents stored all the strong chemicals/paint thinner/ weedkiller in our garden shed, right next to all my toys. I survived! I think whilst this isn't necessarily negligent, it's probably not anticipating potential danger. I think a lot of parents probably do this.
Falling asleep whilst the kids watch tv - again not negligent but from a safe guarding view point there is the possibility for an accident.
Not locking the door? Some people don't. I don't think we've ever locked the door during the day. But my parents never did so I see it as perfectly normal to have an unlocked door. Some kids aren't bothered by an unlocked front door.

If you are genuinely concerned report to the relevant team. It can be anonymous and if no one thinks it's an issue nothing will happen. Are you just seeing everything as a negligent, because your accustomed to preventing dangerous situations?

I thought as part of your OFSTED thing you'd have a safeguarding policy surely?

The bath thing is dangerous. I didn't leave mine unsupervised until the youngest was 6 (I have epileptic sis so maybe a bit paranoid). Toddlers need supervision.

With regards the weed killer…that would depend how high up/whether the child has a chance to get in shed unsupervised.

Doors- if mother around and supervising no need to have door locked. But if asleep somewhere else, yes.

You say she says a toddler in the bath is fine. It's not. To be honest, I'd tell her straight that you're going to have to tell someone else. How would you feel if something happened to that toddler, and you had done nothing? What is stopping you saying something?

Bath - a complete no no
TV - she should snooze on the sofa or put a TV in her bedroom and let the toddler watch there with her. I can't think of many parents who haven't had to resort to this on occasion, it can be exhausting even without PND. Going to bed for a few hours and leaving a child downstairs alone - not good.
Chemicals in shed - that seems a fairly normal thing to do. However, usually 2 & 4 would be supervised if in the garden/on bouncy castle so there'd be very low risk with this.
Unlocked doors - really depends on the children. Mine were fine but my nephew was an escapologist so it wouldn't have been fine at all.

@Floggingmolly Like many urban households now, we don't have a landline, so I can't teach her how to dial 999. I have actively taught her how to unlock the door and go downstairs to trusted neighbours or the caretaker for help. She would absolutely NEVER unlock the door or leave the flat except in an emergency.

I guess it may depend on character, but we've always talked frankly about not putting things in your mouth that aren't food (and she does forest school). So the thing about household cleaning products has never been an issue from 18 months (obviously there's no 'set age' and it would be older for a child who didn't grasp it, but this was the age for us) and I believe pretty firmly that it's down to our approach rather than luck. Also, cleaning products and garden chemicals have child-locking lids and these are always checked and in lock position before being put away. Anything that didn't have a child lock (e.g. laundry detergent and dishwasher caps) goes on a high shelf out of reach.

I'm just pointing out that these things aren't necessarily a risk, even with preschool-age children, if done right. I'm very risk-aware.

I don't think your the nanny, I think your the sister , there was a very similar thread not to long ago. Abot sister leaving baby in bath, sleeping and she had a nanny and cleaner and social services had already been involved

On the unlocked door as an emergency escape route thing... Wouldn't it be safer to teach your child to dial 999?

I'd second that. If the door's unlocked and child unsupervised then what's to stop the child wandering off towards some place of interest if the fancy takes them?
(Clearly door unlocked and adult nearby keeping an eye on child is a different matter)

Are you worried about losing your job if you report her to the authorities?

You know that that some of what she is doing is not fine. You also know that if this is frequently happening as a fully qualified nanny you need to report it to your local MASH hub at Children's Services.

Bath _ never ok

Peppa pig or whatever on.loop not.great, parent should doze in same room not upstairs.

Weed killer_ if do of shed is shut and locked fine, if not v odd. It is an accident waiting to happen.

Unlocked doors._ would not be too worried about this if under strict supervision..However it is a different matter if child has previous escaped!

Can you raise tour issues with.your employer?

The first one is incredibly dangerous, no doubt about it.

As for the other two - it doesn't say in the OP whether the children were unsupervised (which is risky in itself on a the bouncy castle). I don't lock chemicals away when my niece visits, but she is constantly supervised.

It completely depends. I have done and do all those things, in context.

By toddler, do you mean a one year old or a three year old? My almost three plays in the bath while I am in the bedroom next door. I'm talking to her the whole time and laying eyes on her every couple of minutes.

At the weekend I let the children put the telly on while I go back to sleep on occasion. There is a toddler but also older siblings.

I don't lock doors.

Our weedkiller is in the garage and the children play in the garden with the garage open.

I have ME/CFS. It really got bad when dd turned 3 once she'd stopped napping. I had to sleep for an hour or so most days so I did go to bed quite often. Bedroom door open. All doors to the outside were locked, knives and chemicals etc stored safely. This was a necessity not a luxury and the only way to get dd to leave me alone.

What this mum is doing sounds serious. I did what I could to protect dd and being 3 she was a lot more grown up than a 2 yr old.

Are you worried about losing your job if you report her to the authorities?

You would loose your registration if something happened and it came to light you didn't take action.

If (as some are saying) you are the sister, then just talk to her HV or GP about your concerns. I had roaring PND with my first and my sister was worried and called the GP. I was furious at the time but she did the right thing which I am grateful for.

I store household cleaning products in an unlocked cupboard, but she absolutely knows not to touch or eat things that she hasn't checked with a grown up about

Whao, penguin. I was extremely serious about teaching my dd such things and she was generally quite mature, but we still ended up in the hospital when she was four because she and her little friends found medicine in my friend's house and took it.

@Atenco I did also say "cleaning products and garden chemicals have child-locking lids and these are always checked and in lock position before being put away. Anything that didn't have a child lock (e.g. laundry detergent and dishwasher caps) goes on a high shelf out of reach." Same goes for meds (actually, all are out of reach as most tablets are not in child-locked bottles but in those pop-out containers).

I'm really on the same page as most of you here (obviously kids shouldn't be able to drink weedkiller or take mum's prescription pills!) just trying to point out that having these things within reach isn't necessarily unsafe in itself providing they have child lock lids...

I happily stand corrected Penguin

Well kids have been known get those lids off if unsupervised for long enough (God knows how as I struggle enough sometimes).
But I don't think leaving chemicals within reach/the door unlocked is necessarily wrong if children are being well supervised. Parents tend to go for either close supervision or a lot of childproofing and less supervision. Neither is wrong imo.
Leaving a young child in the bath alone as the op mentioned is never ok though. Even if you can hear them and are in the next room. Children have slipped and inhaled water in the time it takes to grab a towel and been unable to be revived. Young children should be no more that at arms length away ever in the bath. If you've forgotten the towel it's better your child has a chilly walk/carry to the bedroom for a few seconds than ends up dead.

I had the entire childproof lid of a bottle of toilet bleach break off last week when I opened it. Brand new bottle with a clearly faulty lid.