AIBU / When is it dialect and when is it just wrong?

[ecuse]

We live in East London/Essex border. I'm not from here originally. My little girl (6) has an East London accent. I expect this, this is where she is from, it's fine, in fact it suits her.

But she's all with the "you woz", "we woz", "wozzn't you, mummy?". I understand she picks this up from her whole peer group. BUT. When I go into school for reading morning etc etc I realise all 4 of the teachers she has had so far say "you woz" etc.

AIBU to think that teachers should not do this? They are teaching her literacy and that's just gramatically incorrect.

I don't think I'd ever have the bottle to bring it up but AIBU to be vexed, or am I just being all Hyacinth Bucket about it? Is it legitimate dialect or is it just wrong?

I feel vindicated in being annoyed, thanks! I was worried I was being a bit of a snob.

Pisses me off too. Il's do it all the time - woz you a good girl? You woz, wozn't you?

One i hate from my local area is "ano". Took me weeks of saying it out loud until i figured out it means "i know". People from that area seem to write phonetically, so i have to read everything in the local accent.

Some days my fb is illiterate.

Drives me mad.'We was' is NOT okay in any circumstances. Likewise, 'he done a nice drawing today'. NO, NO, NO!!!!

Sorry @cardibach I meant 'I writ' in place of 'I wrote.' Drives me mad!

if you can't speak grammatically (at least some of the time) then you will struggle to write formal English. I suspect that this hampers life chances enormously. For some of your DD's peers, school will be the only place for them to learn this. By all means let children switch their accent and dialect between situations, but not giving them the tools to be able to switch isn't fair.

Locally we have some slightly odd dialect things (to my ears), like "I wanna go toilet". But it is very clear that the teachers at DD's school speak more standard English. Children do pick things like that up from teachers. DD reads "grass" with a short "a" as her first phonics teacher was from somewhere up north that has that pronunciation. Obviously not a problem at all. But I would have an issue with her coming home with "we woz" from a teacher or ending every sentence with "innit" as one primary teacher I met did (not from DD's school).

You are being a snob.

I agree, it's not right for teachers to teach the children in their care to talk like this.

I am astonished by the written communications we get from our childrens' schools. So full of errors. I've been tempted to mark them up and return them for redrafting, but so far have resisted.

"However, I would expect teachers to model Standa d Englisha no a level of formality so I wouldn't be happy with that."

While training I was picked up on for calling a group of pupils yous (I'm Scottish)

I did try arguing that the yous in Scots fills the gap in English that you becoming singular left and that actually a plural you is older and therefore could be argued to be more correct than calling lots of people the singular form of you.. I got that look and no, lol.

So yes, I'd expect teachers to model standard English.

Agree, Highalert. Historically, there are very good reasons for different pronunciations and different oral grammar. It's only not ok if used in the wrong situations. Clearly, people can be at a disadvantage in some fields if they haven't mastered standard English, but by no means in all fields. Obviously, a school's job is primarily to teach standard English.

But looking down on people for their use of English and pronunciation is ridiculous snobbery.

Everyone on MN thinks that RP is the correct way to speak. Any hint of an accent or dialect is deemed common.

It's snobbery. pure and simple.

It's the opposite where I live.

'I were playing football with my mates', 'Billy were in goal' etc.

I try and correct my children but I'm fighting a losing battle.

As a teacher, I agree that it is important to be grammatically correct and to model standard English. We are professionals after all.

So what's wrong with it orally? It's the language of prestige in their social circle. As long as it doesn't creep into their written stuff and they know how it goes when necessary.

I don't look down on anyone for pronunciation or use of english.

It just grates my ears and i wince a lot little inside when i hear it. Funnily enough now i think about it, while mil uses woz a lot, she left school at 14 and had very little formal education. I have never heard it from
Fil. Dh uses it a lot, but he is very dyslexic and probably has no awareness of the written grammar.

If it were 'wrong' it would be idiosyncratic, not a variety or register shared by a group.

Come on...it's not snobby to want your children to grow up using the correct words in the correct places when speaking!

It's also not snobby to want your children to avoid using slang, or at least know when to differentiate between how they speak with their friends and how they would speak in a job interview or other formal setting!

All you need to do is teach them when it's ok and when not.

Agreed, Teachervoice, but that is NOT what is being said here.

I expect you all say barth instead of bath too. Now that is wrong.

Can anyone advise how best to correct/model that?

I am very aware that my almost 3yr old DD speaks like this "and then we was going to go the the park", "me and Lilly was playing" etc. Do I correct her, or just parrot it back "oh you and Lilly were playing?!"

Realistically when you become an adult, and work in any job that requires written communication, if you can't write standard English 'correctly' to the eyes of the average person (I'm talking writing 'could of' or the wrong form of there/your) people are going to think you are stupid or uneducated or lazy. Is that wrong? Of course. Some things in the world are wrong. It is very hard for children to learn to write correctly if they don't learn to speak standard English first or at least simultaneously.

Teachers should be teaching standard English, and if parents don't like dialect then they don't need to 'allow' it at home. I am from Kent, and have definitely been accused of 'talking posh' and even my parents used to tell me off for dropping Ts or using slang haha

TheBrilloPad, that (although you will be ignored!) but a LOT of reading good story books out loud. Every day.

In Cuba, people can switch between the local dialect into a more standard Spanish for foreigners. I think we should teach our children their dialect and standard English for dealing with outsiders and more formal settings.