Why doesn't Corbyn understand that he lost?

[Sittinonthefloor]

I'm totally bemused! He thinks it's an absolutely 'incredible' result and that May should resign. Has no one told him that more people voted for her and the tories have more MPs? The tories ran an appalling campaign, trying to sell hugely unpopular policies, May comes across dreadfully (all twitchy and brittle) yet still more people voted for her - even with all the bribes he was offering. A decent candidate could have won it for labour, (Yvette cooper?) I know there's been a big swing, but still! Not winning against a poor opponent who's run a dreadful campaign is hardly a cause for celebration.

Good management of the economy?! I thought we were all deeply inefficient and unproductive, poor infrastructure, a massive problem with housing stock and affordability, had a totally lopsided economy and too many people in low quality, poorly paid jobs?... If that is what good management looks like, we have low standards.

PMSL at "good management of the economy"

I'm not sure they do have similar values soda. To my knowledge, no leading Tories are creationists. Not all the DUP are, nor all their voters, but they do have leading figures who think the earth is a few thousand years old. And the gay thing, they're really out of step there. Even within the Parliamentary Conservative party, there are several who are LGB themselves, the majority iirc do support gay marriage now, and even those who don't aren't necessarily wanting to be able to discriminate against people in employment because of their sexuality. A significant part of DUP support comes from the evangelical Protestant Christian bloc in NI that just doesn't exist in the same way in the rest of the UK.

That's a big reason why May being doing this shows she's desperate. Because the parliamentary Conservative party, and tbh their younger activist base as well as floating voters, have socially very different values. Being a creationist, this just isn't acceptable in mainstream UK society any more. Being opposed to gay marriage makes you a relic. Despite recent evidence to the contrary, the Tories are usually pretty pragmatic. Most of them will get this.

In what way does 14% unemployment look like the past? In Greece, Portugal or even southern France, where youth unemployment is still at 20% or higher, youth unemployment at those levels is becoming a dream. The young people from those countries are the ones coming to the Uk to do humble unskilled jobs, to be chambermaids and waiters and to make sandwiches at Pret a Manger. They may have a big line in EU baloney, but there are no great jobs for them as museum curators or animators in Cadiz or Concarneau.

Re the DUP: they have always gone along with the Tories, since a very long time. They are the Democratic and Unionist Party, and Unionist is the big word. As in, Union with the UK.

I get that it's weird that actually the Tories got the most votes and seats, yet it feels/is being reported as though they lost and Labour won.

However when you put it in context, Labour/Jeremy Corbyn did achieve an incredibly good result. The best GE result of any Labour leader since Tony Blair, both in terms of seat gain and the popular vote. And this from someone who was completely written off by most of his own party, and large parts of the press and public as being an unelectable joke! I'm not surprised he's feeling like a winner.

Currently trying to persuade DS17 to concentrate and revise for his well-chosen and very sensible A level exams. He has dreams, but little of the brilliant obvious aptitude for his dream chosen field that I know is essential (because my career was in a relatively close field) to succeeding there. I keep trying to bring him closer to earth without trashing his optimism. He can't see it, and thinks I am thinking he's inadequate. How does a parent explain that some worlds are only accessible to those of exceptional talent with super-human drive? It's daft posting this in a politics thread I know, so don't bother telling me .

The DUP go along with the Tories in that both are Unionists, and the DUP themselves are a socially conservative party, but they've not always been particularly economically right wing. It's been a while since I looked this up, but I seem to recall Paisley Senior voting with New Labour on quite a lot of stuff. Not things like section 28 obv, but financial.

The best GE result of any Labour leader since Tony Blair

Agreed however May also got the biggest vote share since Thatcher in 1979 and more votes than Blair got for his landslide.

OCSockOrphanage - what does your ds want to do?

It's never the number of votes though, is it? It's the proportion of votes and where they're achieved.

It doesn't matter how many votes May received, she still lost her majority and is needing to use the DUP to prop her party up.

Interesting that the Tory's vote share didn't increase the same as UKip's declined though.

Christina, there was an observation I saw on some politics thing or other which said it looks like the UKIP Labour/Tory vote is roughly 50/50.

In constituencies which ran a UKIP candidate, the drop in UKIP was transferred to both Labour & Tory, with Tories getting a bigger share.

However, in constituencies that didn't run a UKIP candidate this time, Tories & Labour got roughly 50% each.

What this looks like is that the more hardcore Kippers are Labour.
(Completely unscientific obviously, but it was an observation - I'm sure it is just one of the things that will be analysed to within an inch of its life though!)

Interesting stat Piglet, thanks.

I'm trying to find some graphics that show Tory/Labour seats and vote share/numbers over time, including this election, but haven't found the kind of thing I'm looking for yet. Will keep googling, it's pretty interesting.

Jeremy Corbyn gained extra votes and seats by simple bribery. His manifesto is untenable and if he had come to power he would have had no resources with which to carry it out without taxing the life out of top businesses which would have upped sticks and moved out of the country. We would then have had to take up the slack and provide him with the money to fund his spending spree.
Labour are a party that traditionally appeases the electorate by spending. The Tories mop up after them and get it in the neck for their money saving policies.
I think (if it wasn't such an awful thought) it would have been funny if they had actually won and had been forced to carry out their free university fees policy which would have set them well on the road to bankruptcy and led to a huge reduction in the number of university places.
Students fell for this guff because they have never had to pay for anything, they're not full time earners and they have no idea of the cost of living only the cost of beer. Voting Labour was irresponsible and selfish in the very short term. People who voted labour were only thinking of themselves and their benefits.

For the sake of the country and our economy we need to have a strong austere government and the Tories are the only ones who can deliver that.
Jeremy Corbyn is a deluded Marxist who, had he gained number 10 would in all probability never called another election and turned Britain into a Marxist state. Make no mistake, this man is dangerous.

Priceless, Waterhorse, priceless.

Animation, but he doesn't draw, at least not well enough to pass the talent hurdle. He works hard, and we have a few people who know a bit, enough to warn, but no more. There are other entry routes, but he won't countenance them.

I would think with all the freebies JC was offering inc offering all students £40k he should have had a landslide but most people realised it was all a bit unrealistic he will never ever win. The whole Tory campaign was a fuck up but they are still in charge. The DUP represent a large portion on the UK and have policies to appeal to their electorate. It seems people are struggling to understand the importance of religion in NI. Shops are shit til 1pm on Sunday to allow people to go to church. It funny with people who claim themselves to be liberal you only have freedom to be different if you do their kind of different. Looking behind the headlines the DUP have a few policies which even JC might like universal heating allowance and triple lock to be maintained for example. From what I understand these are the policies they are asking to be considered as part of the deal and not demanding creationism is taught in all schools!

waterhorse123

Its funny that people believe that enough to post it.

Charmageddon, yes it's interesting. I had a conversation with a cabby on Wednesday and he said that voted UKip in 2015 to 'save the NHS' and intended to vote Labour this time for the same reason.

waterhorse equally, you could say that the Tories bribe people with lower taxes and they older people don't care about the future of the country because they'll be dead.

I don't think that, but it makes the same unhelpful, inaccurate sweeping generalisation as your comments.

As I see it, the biggest danger to the well being and morality of most people in the UK is another term of ideologically imposed 'austerity'. That's the real danger.

waterhouse which countries would "top businesses" move to? If Labour had put corporation tax up to 26%, the UK would still have one if the lowest tax regimes in Europe.

"Students have never had to pay for anything" Well apart from the huge amount of debt they owe to the govt in student loans. They may not have paid it yet but they will be doing for decades.

You can't blame students for becoming politically engaged and actually voting when they've been asked to pay for their own education. The Conservatives can thank themselves for getting students motivated enough to vote, which is bloody ironic and very funny imo.

And I should have added, we run our business and pay corporation tax. I'm fuming that the Cons are planning to LOWER corporation tax from 20% to 17%. Is a fucking disgrace when the NHS and education are in dire straights. The Torys are nothing but utter cunts.

I see what you mean, OC. What A-levels is he doing, what entry route is he hoping to get into it through, and what is his back up plan if he doesn't succeed in his main aim? After all, even the phenomenally talented and hard working need some luck, too, to really succeed in a field like that.

Shops are shit til 1pm on Sunday to allow people to go to church

I know this is a typo, but I love the idea of just making the shops really shit until 1pm, like only bringing the crappiest stock out and leaving the shelves half empty. Then on the stroke of 1, the shopkeepers can bring out the good stuff again.

It's interesting again here, now Momentum have stopped hijacking every thread with their bludgeoning.

People who voted labour were only thinking of themselves and their benefits.

I just don't understand how anyone can possibly feel justified in making a sweeping statement like this about 13 million people's motivations and thought processes.