Why doesn't Corbyn understand that he lost?

[Sittinonthefloor]

I'm totally bemused! He thinks it's an absolutely 'incredible' result and that May should resign. Has no one told him that more people voted for her and the tories have more MPs? The tories ran an appalling campaign, trying to sell hugely unpopular policies, May comes across dreadfully (all twitchy and brittle) yet still more people voted for her - even with all the bribes he was offering. A decent candidate could have won it for labour, (Yvette cooper?) I know there's been a big swing, but still! Not winning against a poor opponent who's run a dreadful campaign is hardly a cause for celebration.

True, nolotterywinyet. I imagine that's why GO is sitting it out for a while. Decent in the sense of big hitter rather than human being, obv!

I could not agree more roundabout.

It's interesting that you define it as purely ideological charmageddon, rather than people simply doing as so many do and voting in their own economic self interest.

Not purely ideological Miss, there's myriad nuances & motivations obvs - but a huge motivational factor amongst the youth is (and arguably always has been) hope & optimism over practicalities; ideology over minutiae.

There are many 'floating voters' whose vote could go either way. Lots of people have supported both main parties at one stage or another and both main parties rely on wooing voters from each other when election results are close.

This is me tiggy.

I've voted Labour, Lib Dem & Tory over the years.

If Labour had offered a more prioritised & properly funded manifesto, with a proper & consistent commitment to Brexit over the last year, and without Corbyn & his pals at the helm - then I'd have voted Labour this time.

I don't think it is especially impressive that people that will massively benefit from free tuition are voting for a party offering it - doesn't sound like a paradigm shift from old politics to me! Seem to remember it was a popular position for the lib dems too.

I don't think it is especially impressive that people that will massively benefit from free tuition are voting for a party offering it

It wasn't just people who would benefit from free tuition fees though - there was a massive youth engagement from across the spectrum, not just those who may go to/are at university.

Free tuition fees attracted the middle classes rather than the working classes - yet Corbyn's appeal seems to have crossed all socio-economic & education levels amongst the 18 - 30 yr olds.

JC as leader should have tried harder to bring his MPs with him
Correct me if I'm wrong but, as I recall things, a number of heavyweights, including Yvette Cooper and Chuka Umunna were refusing to work for him even before he was elected leader. I think that was inexcusable.

The same could be said of any leader of any political party in history FGS.
No need to snap. I've been very critical of Corbyn and some of those concerns haven't gone away but I freely admit, I underestimated him. Even a fortnight ago, I thought he was campaigning in an echo chamber and that he wouldn't be able to galvanise young people to vote or even register to vote. I was wrong and I'm happily chomping on a great big piece of humble pie with lashings of custard.

Presumably the minimum wage increase attracted some others - I daresay that some were engaged by his style but as far as I can see labour ran on a platform of massive and unaffordable populist giveaways and the tories tried to do something about public spending cost increases from be aging population.

I hope Corbyn does get in next time because brexit may need a huge amount of public spending to be got through even if it means even more borrowing.

Not purely ideological Miss, there's myriad nuances & motivations obvs - but a huge motivational factor amongst the youth is (and arguably always has been) hope & optimism over practicalities; ideology over minutiae.

And yet they turn up for people who promise them a policy they view as being in their own economic self interest, just as pensioners do. It's not just about tuition fees either, not by any means, there was also the housing stuff. That is a HUGE issue for under 30s, under 40s really, and if anything is more live amongst the poorer for the obvious reason that they're even more priced out and even less likely to have parental assistance.

But our cultural attitudes to people wanting sweeties someone else is paying for, someone from a different age group to the recipients, is completely different depending on the age of the cohort in question.

floisme some did yes. But most did not. There were still plenty of MPs (of wide ranging views) that would have given things a go.

However, the leadership team did not reach out broadly. They didn't want those MPs involved nor their activists.

Maybe I am too young to remember (30s) before but labour currently seems to be giving hope to people

. I'm fairly centralist, mainly voted lib dem previously, voted remain but think we now need to get on with brexit. I don't believe in lots of borrowing, initially thought austerity was painful but needed to get back in the black. I was worried that corbyn was too weak on defence and concerns about the total shambles of the parliamentary party and the murmurings of antisemitism .

But life recently has been hard and grey. There appears to be no money for anything, public services getting worse, our library has gone, public transport too expensive, I'm going back to work from mat leave and my wages are 80% going on childcare. My standard of living had dropped, I don't know what I will do when my parents need care as I can't see us affording that or paying for a university education for my daughter in 18 years time( we save for both already but it's hard). The country seems to have become well nasty in places, I've experienced overt racism for the first time in the last year.

The Labour Party manifesto and their campaign has given me hope, hope that there is a fairer way, that life could be better than it is now. It seems to work in other countries in Europe and there's no reason why it couldn't here. Austerity isn't working. I only really got on board the week before the GE, if there was one called next week I would be out there campaigning. imo they don't need to turn to the centre to get more people they just need to spread the word. Let people see that their is a better way. If the PLP got behind this message maybe they could do it

Maybe - I'm talking about those very senior MPs who showed contempt for their own election processes and set a terrible example to their junior colleagues. I think they have a lot to answer for.

Sorry cross post, that was in response to GetAHair

I agree flo, those MPs ought to be ashamed of themselves IMO.

The baby boomers are generally regarded as those born between 1946 and 1960, which means at least half the boomers are pensioners, hence the crisis in ageing, the NHS and social care. Demographers call it "the pig in the python" and it is the largest generation ever, so inevitably it distorts whichever bits of the economy it impacts, just by virtue of its size/numbers. It caused the social changes and fashion revolutions of the 60s, and now it's all about the Silver Surfers.

I thought TM was 'brave' to campaign on her social care funding proposal, but also right. If elderly people are sitting on massive housing assets their estates should be expected to pay a good chunk towards the care they need, shouldn't they? Why should society pay for my care when I have amassed a tidy pile in bricks and mortar, as well as benefiting from years of inflation, and a free college education? We have to get a lot better at smoothing inter-generational wealth transfers in the interests of social harmony and equity.

That referred back a few posts now to MIssBennett, who pointed out that everyone votes in their own economic interest, to some degree at least.

I don't understand this idea that Theresa May's policy was particularly harming pensioners. Could someone explain how it was supposed to work, because I thought she promised people could all keep their large and valuable houses to live in and what would be lost was their children's inheritance of said houses, as on death all but the last £100k would go in accumulated care fees? Ie that she was promising yet again that the younger generations would be the ones losing out, not actually the older ones?

I wouldn't piss on May if she were on fire, but I was glad she raised the social care funding issue, and not just because it might be what cost her the majority. It's a discussion we're going to have to have sooner or later. The eldest boomers are indeed just turning 71, the youngest not far past 50 by some definitions, so not that many of them are in the cohort needing extensive NHS treatment and social care just yet. But it is indeed a ticking timebomb. We need to face it.

I hoped even those who felt May's plan was flawed would acknowledge that at least it's an idea, it's a starting point, it could kick off a societal debate on the matter. But the responses to it from opponents were pretty immature and unsophisticated. Corbyn's as guilty of that as anyone, and I say that as someone who voted Labour.

If a person is paying for private education, they are also paying tax for something (state schools) they are not using, so are paying twice over! And such parents are likely to see university fees as not much more expensive than school fees.

And my argument against re-nationalisation is simple; I am old enough to remember that mostly they were an inefficient way to ration and allocate services. I did hear someone propose that a single energy company in state hands could provide a fair pricing yardstick which might be sensible.

I'd also say I don't think everyone necessarily votes in their own self interest. One always gets well off leftists, and also there were plenty of people who voted for a Tory benefit cutting manifesto in 2015 whilst also relying on tax credits themselves, as a recent example. I just think we need to critically examine the way in which we assess people who do that.

A lot of posters I've seen on here spent a lot of time before the GE knocking on about Corbyn and the IRA, so um Treeza and her DUP mates guessing youre ok with that? Or lets not mention it just because...

I hoped even those who felt May's plan was flawed would acknowledge that at least it's an idea, it's a starting point, it could kick off a societal debate on the matter. But the responses to it from opponents were pretty immature and unsophisticated

Agree.

I am sure most of us have worked with people we dislike.

Personally I don't invite them for tea to be provocative and fawn upon them at their socials / memorials.

Tenner bet you don't invite them to prop your government up in the Commons either.