Why doesn't Corbyn understand that he lost?

[Sittinonthefloor]

I'm totally bemused! He thinks it's an absolutely 'incredible' result and that May should resign. Has no one told him that more people voted for her and the tories have more MPs? The tories ran an appalling campaign, trying to sell hugely unpopular policies, May comes across dreadfully (all twitchy and brittle) yet still more people voted for her - even with all the bribes he was offering. A decent candidate could have won it for labour, (Yvette cooper?) I know there's been a big swing, but still! Not winning against a poor opponent who's run a dreadful campaign is hardly a cause for celebration.

Hear hear Slarti

FFS Labour are a LEFT WING party. Not a centrist one.

If Labour had offered the infrastructure investment, nationalise railways, end austerity & properly fund the public services then the result probably would have been theirs.

Universal everything, including school dinners, nursery places, musical instruments, university fees, maintenance grants, triple lock (rather than double) on pensions, renationalisation of everything etc etc & the demonisation of 'the rich' coupled with increased tax burdens and all the superfluous other freebies were too far.

but he's not won slarti so I stand by what I said. It's not intended to be a 'doom and gloom prediction' just a point of view that I hold and people I've spoken to who would be Labour voters who won't vote for JC

That's not an explanation so much as an assertion charmageddon. I can see that you and a number of other peoples think a different Labour leader (not said who?) would've been able to attract older voters whilst also harnessing the surge in the youth vote. As someone who did vote Labour and has reservations about Corbyn, that's a lovely idea, but the workings out are conspicuous by their absence.

I'm no Corbynista by any means, but I think it's fairly obvious that he's had a considerable personal vote here. If people think that could've been achieved by another candidate, they're not telling us who or how. I mean, do you think the 80k plus earners brigade would've filled in for the youth vote? I don't think that policy idea was sensible, but that doesn't mean it cost them seats (not least because they seem to have done better than expected in more well heeled constituencies).

Good luck with that then moomin it's clearly what the country wants

They can vote for the lib dems then.

Slarti spot on.

As I did moomin
I think what I find quite staggering is that the 'Corbynistas' won't accept that there's even a conversation to be had here, even though labour did not win They just seem to want to shout people down and follow the messiah.

May and Sturgeon lost seats.

Yes. Sturgeon lost twice as many as May though which is why I find it strange that there aren't the calls for her to go also.

even Farron all gained.

Yes mostly in Scotland however wiped out in Wales.

I'm no Corbynista by any means, but I think it's fairly obvious that he's had a considerable personal vote here.

I don't disagree, not at all.
He's achieved something amazing - he's reinvigorated Politics & engaged the previously apathetic; he's mobilised & energised the youth vote & they're the future; he's made politics accessible & exciting again.

Unfortunately he was let down by his over-reaching & poorly costed manifesto, and his past alliances and actions was a taint for a sizeable number of the older voters too (although not all, obviously).

No one has wanted any sort of conversation with Corbyn. They have merely wanted to plough ahead with calling him a terrorist sympathiser bla bla etc

His manifesto is not even hugely far left.

And the Tory manifesto wasn't costed at all.

Past alliances possibly. Anti-austerity tickets haven't been particularly popular with 65 and overs of late, though, and this can't be about manifesto costing because the Tory numbers were as unreliable as Labour's and older voters still turned out for them.

Also I think if people object to Corbyn on principle because of eg IRA meetings, they'd probably do so whatever the manifesto said. It is a valid point that he's effectively had some degree of personal vote against him too, if a smaller one than the personal vote for him, but I'm not sure that was recoverable by coming up with the right policy.

People who remember JC and some of the cronies from long ago didn't necessarily trust him or think that his manifesto could be seen through. He comes across as idealistic rather than professional. His track record isn't great, other than campaigning, which he is clearly good at in an almost cult like fashion.

And the Tory manifesto wasn't costed at all.

Yeah, one of the few definites to take from this election is that the vast majority of us are ok with voting for parties where the sums are unreliable. Labour and the Tories were both inaccurate, and yet the vote share for those two combined was the highest for ages.

Isn't it funny how the regressive left seem to really, really hate democracy...

But May lost didn't she?

She's now sleeping with eejits to see her through the next few years. The Conservatives are going to have to develop strong stomachs for this. Strong and stable is now weak and shaky. And she has got the coalition of chaos she wished for.

Charmageddon

What's war got to do with it or is is it being organised by, let me guess, STW?

I've got a funny feeling that if it had been labour with more seats but not a majority, labour voters would call it a win. But they don't see the Tories as having won 🤔🤔

Thinking more on the Tory and Labour vote share, they got 82.4% between them. It was 67.3% in 2015, 65.1% in 2010 and 67.6% in 2005. 72.4% in 2001, 73.9% in 1997. I can't be fucked looking back any further, but I have a feeling you need to go back to the 80s for the last time Labour and the Tories took that high a combined vote share.

A smattering of nationalists aside, this has been a shitty election for smaller parties. Those are the losers here. Worth noting that for all this is a disaster for May, she's actually increased the Tory vote share by several percent. It's a measure of how far we've retreated to the old Labour v Tory cleavages that she could do that and still fail so hard.

Also on the subject of NI, they've seen something similar there. Genuinely multi party at Westminster last time, but no longer.

its clear he lost out of 650 seats he got 261 maybe 262 which works out to 40 percent

I'm not that young (31)

That is young. I'd say "young" was under-35. When you can't remember the 1970s at all and what a mess this country was in. When you can't really remember what life was like for people behind the iron curtain. Or the IRA campaigns.

Labour did well, but they had an open goal ... with a goalkeeper in place things would have been far less impressive. And, as many have pointed out, they didn't do well enough.

Also spectacularly unsurprised that the regressive left seem to have conveniently forgotten the fact that the police in London have been over worked, under resourced and had their down time & leave cancelled over the last few weeks thanks to terrorism.

And the Tory manifesto wasn't costed at all.

The Labour manifesto not only wasn't costed, it actually couldn't be costed.

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9218

It was impressive, in that it made the SNP White Paper look like an exercise in fiscal responsibility.

Nationalisation of all utilities, fully funding higher education, more money for the NHS & Social care.... All to be paid for by an small increase in tax for 5%, and a "modest" increase in corporation tax.

Who would lend a Corbyn government money at 2% over 10 years? No-one. That means the printing press, and that only ends up one way. Inflation, Sterling devalued, higher wage demands, strikes, ah we're back to 1978.

Good job we have the Trades Union legisla..... oops.

Anyone who truly believed and voted for the labour manifesto is naive. That's not the same as saying "stupid". I can link to a theoretical physisist who loves Corbyn. He's not thick!

A non-Trot Labour leader, with a sane manifesto would have won that election. They would have got my vote.

She's now sleeping with eejits to see her through the next few years. The Conservatives are going to have to develop strong stomachs for this.

Indeed.

Most English and Welsh people, and to a lesser extent Scots, aren't very familiar with the DUP. I am. I'm not sure how much it's yet been appreciated how badly this lot are going to play in Middle England. They're fucking fossils. Even some of the more extreme wing of the English Conservatives would shy away from some of this lot's dafter ideas.