To think that its wrong to exclude a toddler from toddler group

[twobabies]

I go to a toddler group on Fridays and last week there was an incident with one of the toddlers I think shes just under two. She had been playing and another child took the toy she had been playing with and she tapped him on the arm. Another child then came and tried to take it and she hit him too. I have never seen this child hit before and she is quite a popular member of the group. The mum of this girl got up told her daughter off and made her cuddle both other children she then apoligised to the other mums and took her child away to a quite part of the room. When she came back to join us the leader of the group came over to her and in front of about 4 other mums told her that there was a "behaviour policy" in the group that if a child hit more than twice they would be asked to leave.... The mum seemed quite embarrased and I was quite embarrased for her. She had done everything she could after the incident and the leader acknowledged that these things do happen but that it was to "stop bad feeling between parents". She then went on to add that "this was only the second time that she had had to tell a mother this and that the first one had started crying, left the group and never came back! This mum then quietly left 10mins later. So do you think I am being unreasonable in thinking that this is a ridiculous policy for a toddler group to have? or is this quite common? I would love to know what you would have done had this been you as the mum seemed quite embarrased and then left. By the way this is my first post so hi to all as well!!!

I run a mother and toddler group whihc mnay children with behaviour issues attend, I have a discipline policy which I have had to use twice in four years. I am not aware of a more traditional group having such a policy, it is nevassary for my groups due to the nature of the children and families attending.

On both occasions the child concerned was biting, punching slapping several times in one sessiona nd this had been happening for a number of weeks. I had to ask the mothers not to bring their children but this was done quietly and discreetly and I ensured that the organistion I work for provided support for the family until they were able to return to my group.

Before using the behaviour policy we do try to supportthe parents ion discipiling their children within the group and I offer all the advice and support I can and usually we can solve the problem before a family is asked to temporarily leave the group.

It is very hard, I do feel for the woman running this group as it is hard balancing the needs of one child and the safety of the rest of the group.

I think that is the problem tsap, most groups do not have the facility to offer support outside of the group

so they are given this blanket policy to deal with all behaviour problems and then have no way of improving things for the family in between sessions

I DO support the use of this policy where necessary but it is hard for all concerned

It is standard though, all toddler groups who are members of the PSLA, or have been visited by their parent toddler officer (should be most if not all) will havbe been advised to do this as best practice

I would feel awful asking a family to leave if I was not able to offer them support.

I used to run a M&T group and we had an 'unofficial' rule that if your child hit another you should leave that session - hopefully so that the child got the message that this behaviour led to undesirable consequences ie no more play. But of course mum & child would be welcome at the next session - everyone seemed to think it was a good compromise - protected children from being on the receiving end of violence but allowed the hitter to come back and learn to socialise.

TSAP it is the pits

I have been threatened in the street because of enforcing this policy in the worst case I ever dealt with

and this very month a mother left in tears because I had to mention this policy to her

I handled it really craply on that occasion, obviously, and feel fkn dreadful about it, but I HAVE NO TRAINING on this and yet I have to ensure the safety of other children in the group, I have to

But what's wrong with asking the child to leave one session - then return? How will they learn otherwise? No one wants their child hit but the kids who hit are often the offspring of the most needy mothers.

kama - funnily enough my two have never hit anyone apart from each other!

The thread title did imply it was for more than one session, but I think part of the problem is that without ultra sensitive handling a carer may feel too embarassed to return to a group in this situation. I do feel a bit saddened at the thought of a very young child being persona non grata.

I take dd to 4 toddler groups, and this isn't policy at any of them. If it was then there would be almost no-one left attending! How on earth can you stop a 13 month old (in my case) from hitting if that's what she chooses to do?!

Funnily enough I never had to ask anyone to leave... the mother of the hitter would always apologise and then take them out - usually with a sympathetic response from the rest of us.

If it is the odd tap or even smack when kids fall out over a toy then I leave them to it.

I have however worked with a family whose child was regularly biting so hard she was drawing blood. Something has to be donew then and things can be done with the right training and support.

CantSlimWontSlim - Easy... quietly but firmly remove your child, whilst explaining in language appropriate to their age that it is wrong to hit. Just making them say sorry to their unfortunate victim isn't enough. Even a 13 month old will start to cotton on that there's a right way to behave - that's how children learn. If you just sit back and say there's nothing you can do because she's so young then you aren't doing anyone any favours.

tsap could I email you perhaps? I have had such problems with this issue over the past year and I have struggled to find anyone to advise me

twinsetandpearls - definitely agree re: minor transgressions over a toy, especially if the children are the same size!

That's what I do do fortyplus . Making her say sorry wouldn't work at all, as she can only say no, yeah, mummy and daddy, so the other child could be waiting for several months!!

i think there has been some confusion with this thread - the OP said (not in opening post) the toddler group was a "private music group just run by the leader" and that the child was excluded for that session only.

but faz, surely the parents at your group are aware of your policies? the way the poor mum was leapt on unwares after she had tried to sort it out is the thing i really object to. there is no point in having policies or even guidelines if they aren't publicised.

and i've been to some groups which are dangerously anarchistic so am no fan of laissez faire.

Ah, didn't see that bit popmum, I guess that does put things in a slightly different light.

Agree with fishie, these policies are probably very useful if you've got parents there who just ignore what their DCs are up to, but it sounds as if this poor woman was doing her best.

Feel very for her.

I suppose if it's a private music group you wouldn't want a kid to run round thumping everyone, would you?

Oh thank goodness I have never been to a mother and toddler group. DS is quite big for his age and I am always worried about him being too physical with other children. One of his friends is small for his age, and if he 'hugs' another child it looks sweet. If DS does the same he is liable to knock them over. At the local playground I never know how another mother is going to react - some (most) think its normal for boys to have a tussle - others don't. I usually operate a 2 strikes and your out policy, but to be honest I think this is mainly for me to save face infront of other parents.

Anyway, DS's new trick is to hug the mothers rather than their children - he hasn't knocked any of them over yet.

FrannyandZooey feel free to cat me.