To not want my human rights torn up?

[futuristic1]

I thought we weren't going to let them change the way we live?

One of the best things we could do to protect our security, is to remain members of Europol, with all the resources like contacts, co-operation, free exchange of information, European arrest warrants etc that gives us. Easy! Oh wait... we turned our backs on that a year ago, when the then Home Secretary had plenty of opportunity to speak about the damage leaving Europol would do.

So British society as a whole sees women as disposable and that's a problem in all cultures

Utter bollocks. Go to Pakistan go to Afghanistan go to Syria go to Egypt and see how you are treated there as a woman.

You Just can't say it can you!

thays exactly how Rotherham happened! Dancing around ugly facts

lots of people have pointed out that
a) this is dangerous and will not work
Its not working the way it is now so lets give it a try.
b) given all the answers and solutions we need to solve terrorism as much as possible
And one of the way we can do this is by taking away some rights from religious extremists and protecting the lives of innocent children.

'So why have we seen radicals spouting nonsense while the police have provided traffic control in the past? Examples please?'

What about this?

Please don't be naïve and say 'oh but its not illegal to pray!'. I haven't got a clip of his speech but as he has been deported can you just accept it was radical?

Carolinesbeenies
And the answer to that problem is as I said above, and will not be solved by the removal of yet more rights.

Solutions are:

*Increase funding in early years/education and young peoples mental health

*Change the school system, so that segregated schools, and schools with carte blanche over their curriculum are forced to open up, and forced to follow the national curriculum at all levels especially RE.

*Fund and reinstate proper community policing, which was being proven to work until TM and co slashed the funding.

*Properly fund those services which protect us, especially Customs etc

*Better intergration programmes.

Has May promised any of that, no?

What we will get instead is a knee jerk reaction that will only harm us all in the long term, and do absolutely nothing to stop terrorist attacks, even in the short term.

Rather than supporting this, anyone who really wants to stop terrorism should be asking her why she's cut the very things that are proven to work

Here's what you should be talking about:

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_5934603ee4b02478cb9cb0dd
Theresa May’s ‘Endless Cuts’ Slammed By Ex-Counter Terror Chief Jim Gamble After London Bridge Attack
‘For too long the blanket of austerity has excused all sorts of cuts’

Jim Gamble, the former head of Special Branch in Belfast, accused the Prime Minister of trying to “asset strip the critical services who in times of trouble make the real difference”.

Now forgive me here as I don't know anything about the guy, but I wouldn't have thought the ex head of special branch in NI was a natural ally of the liberal left.

Have a look at the comments from police and families on MN this week:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2946542-The-government-is-lying-about-police-numbers?pg=1&order=

The stories are awful.

Theresa May says we need to 'ask difficult questions'. Well how about we start with her judgment and unwillingness to put politics and ideology behind the best interests of security. How about we start with why it seems the Manchester Bomber was not in the Prevent radar despite numerous reports that warnings had been made about him (rumour is at least two members of the public and the US intelligence services). Similar is now coming out about the London Bridge attackers.

Let's not forget jails.:

Nor shall we mention anything about radicalisation in jails;
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32194671
Warning over Islamic radicalisation in England's prisons

Staff shortages are making it harder to tackle Islamic radicalisation in England's prisons, the former head of the National Counter Terrorism Security Office has warned.

Chris Phillips said shortages meant extremists were not properly monitored, enabling them to recruit others.

Oh look here's Theresa AGAIN:

Home Secretary Theresa May rejected the claim that staff shortages were hindering efforts to stop Islamic radicalisation in prisons, adding that the government was looking at "and continue to look at" preventative measures.

Mrs May has already said she wants new "extremism officer" roles in prisons to deal with radicalisation.

Let's not talk about the link between petty criminal behaviour and extremists. Nor suicide rates rocketing in prison or attacks on prison guards. Nor stress prison guards are under and are reporting.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/26/prison-suicides-in-england-and-wales-reaches-record-high suicides
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37789042
Prison violence in England and Wales up yet again

But yeah. The law, the left, human rights.

How about we don't buy the bullshit.

I don't expect to convert people who have been brainwashed into thinking it's human rights. And brainwashed is the right word.

But I can get people to talk about the REAL issues that are being deliberately suppressed and hidden because of the political agenda of the time.

Yes. Because none of those points made any difference to the 3 'martyrs' this weekend.

So how will taking away human rights from the rest of us help that situation? How does it make Islam Reform? You are not the only person I have heard recently saying that Islam needs a Reformation BTW.

The 3 'martyrs' dont acknowledge any form of human rights when it applies to infidels or indeed themselves

Ah, so eroding our human rights is the answer? And it's not, say, doing exactly what the terrorists want and also do themselves?

Islam must reform.

Islam already has, same as most religions. ISIS are an apocalyptic death cult. Much like the Westboro Baptists don't represent the rest of Christianity. Nobody's calling for Christianity to reform because of those particular cunts.

I am frankly worried by any calls to erode human rights. And it's not lefty hand-wringing, it's self-interest to be perfectly honest. If we say one human being is worth more or less than any other, we can torture them because they're less than fully human, we can lock them up without trial because they're less than fully human, what's to stop them coming after me when the government decides I've committed some crime or other?

Humans have always been murderous arseholes. Just look at history. #Notallhumans, sure, but we have to face facts. We have not yet found a way to stop humans killing other humans. Calling one set of people less than fully human is precisely what ISIS are doing when they call fellow muslims and non-muslims infidels and crusaders. Why on earth should we emulate them?

'I did say downthread that I didn't. But I don't base my views on posh people on Made in Chelsea either.'

What? but its not the point what you 'base your views on'. Its the fact that as an example we have had to tolerate 'political opinions'/radicalisation and programmes like 'the jihadi next door' have been allowed to be aired.

Don't think made in chelsea encourages terrorism does it?

the jihadi next door

Not kidding this time.

Press the off button. You will be better off for it.

Make - the day I take any advice from a squawking labourbot who can't answer a single question but just auto completes soundbites will be the day pigs fly across my sky with the remote. Ta!

Ah so anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "squeaking labourbot"???

I can assure you I am no Labourbot, and you have just proved my point that none of you can have a reasonable debate without resorting to childish insults.

It isn't the leftys here throwing around words like that.

It just doesn't help when we are trying to have a reasoned debate.

WalkingonLeg0
This hard left attitude to protecting evil peoples rights has gone on for to long. Lets chuck them out of the country and let them appeal from abroad. I dont see why we should spend a decade paying them benefits to preach their hatred here

Which country would you send British passport holders too? I am talking about people that are as British as you and I.
Please think about which country would accept them before you answer.

If you cannot think of an answer, stop spouting guff and open your eyes.

It's ok Dan

This thread is a fascinating spotlight on what it is to be British.

Try going on a US non-political forum and suggesting they scrap their constitutional rights (which are their backstop of human rights). There would be nothing left but feathers.

For the umpteenth time I am going to repost a bit of RedToothBrushes excellent posts....

Heres an actual person, with actual knowledge...

Theresa May’s ‘Endless Cuts’ Slammed By Ex-Counter Terror Chief Jim Gamble After London Bridge Attack
‘For too long the blanket of austerity has excused all sorts of cuts’

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_5934603ee4b02478cb9cb0dd

Even an expert is laying this at the door of cuts.

Are you going to accuse him of being a handwringing liberal???

Jim Gamble, the former head of Special Branch in Belfast, accused the Prime Minister of trying to “asset strip the critical services who in times of trouble make the real difference”

Now forgive me here as I don't know anything about the guy, but I wouldn't have thought the ex head of special branch in NI was a natural ally of the liberal left.

Those who want fewer human rights for British citizens are those that would welcome Sharia Law to the UK. These are dangerous people - beware of these monsters.

*Blandings - Yes I do actually - central London and grew up here in the 70's and 80's so went through the whole IRA bombing on a regular basis. Not something I want to go back to in terms of erosion of human rights. I didn't feel fear on a daily basis just as I don't feel fear now.

Do you remember the Birmingham 6 or the Guildford 4? Or Operation Demetrius?*

Well said, whenever anyone asks are we okay, I say I lived through the IRA. I had to go to school the day after the staples corner bomb (MFI) . I used to travel past it day after day looking at the destruction. I'm hardened to it, because no matter their reasons, I wasn't going to allow it to change my life.

Now the first thing TM wants to do is reign in my human rights. And can't stand the argument, 'if you're not a criminal' 'if you've got nothing to hide' then nothing to worry about. That's not the point. The fact many can't see that is saddening. No matter who anyone votes for.

I really worry about the "This is not Nazi Germany, no one's going to start locking up disabled campaigners all of a sudden" rhetoric. It seems as though the way we teach history has given some people the impression that the Nazis ran on a "kill all the Jews!" Platform - so as long as we don't vote for the "Kill all the Jews!" party, it could never happen again. Easy, obvious solution!

But of course they did not, they ran (among other things) on policies of national sovereignty, greater home security, and improved industry. Once they were elected, they didn't suddenly begin programmes of mass murder, it happened incrementally, with legally passed restrictions to particular rights, benefits and freedoms which were less objectionable. Protests against these restrictions were an excellent excuse to begin clamping down, with bonus convenient scapegoats (a process which plenty of ordinary Germans bought into too), and once that becomes normalised and legalised, you can extend the scope and results. This kind of thing never happens all at once - it would be far far easier to guard against if it did. It's a process of multiple steps, and it's absolutely right to recognise here the potential for one of those steps being taken and push back NOW with our votes and voices while we still have them, rather than waiting to see how far down this path we get. Flattening out that process into just an easy Nazi vs not Nazi choice where we avoid voting for the mass murder party is a trap based on learning an over simplified version of the complexities of history and society.

user1471545174 I'm guessing the YANBUs don't live in major conurbations

I take great exception to that. Like other folk posting on here I was also injured in an IRA bomb when younger (with serious complications). How dare you suggest that because I do not want TM to tear up the Human Rights Act I do it from a place of safety.

Your guess is wrong - mind you so is a lot of what you are saying but for the time being we have free speech so spout away, just try not to insult folk with doing it.

Instinctively I'm against changes to human right legislation as I have little faith that governments will not abuse it.

We defo need more police & I think even just having bobbies on the beat might act as a deterrent.

However on the flip side we do seem to take a long time to deport criminals (not just terrorists) & you also hear of murderers from other countries being allowed in & then going on to murder here. Are there laws to prevent this? Why does deportation take so long?

Unfortunately the other issue is money. There are more than 3000 known extremists & I read it takes 30 intelligence officers to monitor each one. Thats the equivalent of tripling the Met numbers which just can't happen. Now these latest terrorists were known to intelligence services but I assume they had not committed any crimes & therefore were not priority. We mustn't forget how many plots that have been foiled.

So how should we manage this 3000? Statistically some will slip through the net.

Now seems the time for the Patrick Stewart video about what the EHCR has ever done for us.

A timely reminder of what good we have got from Human Rights. And the bollocks of how the EU have forced Human Rights on us. And how the EHCR was a British lead venture.

Flattening out that process into just an easy Nazi vs not Nazi choice where we avoid voting for the mass murder party is a trap based on learning an over simplified version of the complexities of history and society.

Beautifully put!

Do you remember the Birmingham 6 or the Guildford 4?

Bear in mind if those cases happened today, they would not have got any compensation for losing over a decade of their lives.