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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

London does not feel safe

110 replies

thinkiamgoingcrazy · 04/06/2017 06:07

The Westminster attack, now the London Bridge and Borough Market attacks Sad.

The horrible rise in knife crime Sad.

And the knife crime / murders are not remote. The 18 year old son of our ex neighbours was chased and stabbed to death about 2 years ago, about 10 minutes drive from where we live. About a week ago a woman was shot and killed on the same road that my H has a shop on. A few months ago a young boy was stabbed to death outside a neighbouring secondary school - the students at my dcs' secondary school were offered counselling.

SadSad

OP posts:
Brittbugs80 · 04/06/2017 07:56

Terror attacks are designed to do just that. To create terror and fear because of the nature of the attack. They are barbaric and designed to shock. By keeping the fear high, generally people are easier to control.

A quick Google this morning of statistics shows the following

1.4 humans die a year to terror attacks
100 humans die a year from dog attacks
18 humans die a year from hot water
2900 humans a year from accidents while driving with a mobile phone.

These are UK statistics. We are safer now and less people are dying than they were during the terror attacks inflicted by the IRA.

Nationcreationbusstation · 04/06/2017 07:57

Yes ChristopherWren I wonder what's going to happen to the next generation with regards to this city. Council houses nigh on impossible to get, so many being privately rented at prices unrealistic to so many... The whole market is a mess. I do think a lot about how important it is to 'nurture' another city in the UK. But my timing was totally wrong and I'm not sure that what I was saying even made sense.

Nationcreationbusstation · 04/06/2017 07:58

TheFirstMrsDV who are you? London Bridge itself? Hmm to you.

AfroBrown · 04/06/2017 07:59

Knife crime in London is a cultural thing and if you are a young black male london can be particularly dangerous.
Police have not helpes themselvs with unlawful killings and steps need to be made to bridge the gap. I wouldn't say all police are racists but some of the wording they use have racist connotations. Also a lack of understanding of the black community does not help.

juneau · 04/06/2017 08:00

Knife crime is indeed worrying and I think if I lived in London and my DC were at London schools I would find this concerning. YANBU to be worried.

As for terrorism - I'm going into London today with my family. I will live my life as normal. I lived in London for 7 years, DH works there, we've also lived/worked in New York. Life goes on. These arseholes won't win.

SquirmOfEels · 04/06/2017 08:05

I started a thread at the start of May about the (apparent) rise in stabbing, when the sixth teenager lost their life on the street.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/london/2924104-Another-teenager-loses-their-life-in-a-stabbing-in-London

The number keep rising. And I do wonder if the reassuring 'crime is really low at the moment' stats are somewhat out of date.

Even teenagers being shot dead barely seems to make the news any more.

MsHooliesCardigan · 04/06/2017 08:08

The vast majority of knife crime is gang related. The chance of your average Londoner getting randomly stabbed by a complete stranger is lower than your chance of winning the Lottery. However, I do get people's concerns about terrorism. Westminster bridge and London Bridge are places very close to my heart where I have easily spent thousands of hours.

AfroBrown · 04/06/2017 08:15

@mshoolies you are genreally right but if you are a black male your chances of being a victim of knife crime increase ten fold hence a cultural problem. On the whole knife crime is a gang problem though.

Lostwithinthehills · 04/06/2017 08:15

Did you really mean to associate police officers and violent white supremacists together? at risk from over zealous police officers and anyone wanting to get revenge on brown people.

A study from this year titled Young People and Street Crime, commissioned by the Youth Justice Board across 32 London boroughs, reported "Crime is more prevalent in poor areas, and since black people are disproportionately poor, they are disproportionately affected – as perpetrators and victims." Sadly that must mean black people will come into contact with the police a disproportionate number of times too.

hesterton · 04/06/2017 08:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nationcreationbusstation · 04/06/2017 08:25

Lostwithinthehills The chances of the police being racist and enacting racism within their job is higher than the number of police who are strongly ANTI RACIST so the balance is not there. Despite a good number of 'neutral' police men and women they don't counteract the racists.

MyCalmX · 04/06/2017 08:27

Yes I thought TheFirstMrs comments were a bit out of order.

Over zealous police officers and revenge on brown people (what the fuck btw) Hmm

Frankiestein401 · 04/06/2017 08:35

Sorry op - this is the feeling these sad individuals want to promote. You counter by laughing at them and their ideology. Feeling unsafe is a natural immediate reaction - but put your brain in gear, look at the stats and realise that as 1 in 8 million your chances of encountering this type of incident are bugger all. 30 Londoners a day die of heart disease - worry about that?

woodhill · 04/06/2017 08:45

This is deliberate though and murder. I know you can prevent heart disease.

Imamouseduh · 04/06/2017 08:45

I live in London and feel very safe. Because I won't be drawn into fear. What kind of life would that be?

Lostwithinthehills · 04/06/2017 08:47

The chances of the police being racist and enacting racism within their job is higher than the number of police who are strongly ANTI RACIST so the balance is not there. Despite a good number of 'neutral' police men and women they don't counteract the racists.

Do you have a source for the proportion of racists in the police? You seem to be stating, with confidence, that there are more racists in the police than anti-racists, so what number of racists in the police does chances and higher describe? What defines an anti-racist police officer and how have you identified their numbers? Lastly, how have you arrived at the numbers of neutral police officers? What is a "good number"? And what do you mean by neutral police officer anyway?

elgwyn · 04/06/2017 08:53

Look at the guy still carrying his pint - he's got the right priorities. No amount of terrorists are going to stop him enjoying his drink.

twitter.com/NickyAllt/status/871258932202930176/photo/1

What being a Londoner is all about.

Nationcreationbusstation · 04/06/2017 08:57

Lostwithinthehills I am dearly, dearly sorry - I cannot provide you with the sources you so crave. I have only my and many of the people I know's experience to go on. I appreciate that that is not nearly enough for you to go on and you want cold hard facts provided by the government. I think that one would be ridiculous to deny that racism against black people (I am speaking about white/black relations as that is what I'm familiar with) is sadly a part of our society. In my experience and logically it follows that there are more specifically racist police officers than specifically anti-racist police officers. That would, logically, create an anti-black imbalance.

I don't have statistics however I am certain that what I have said is accurate enough.

Nationcreationbusstation · 04/06/2017 08:58

So true elgwyn... although mine would be a disgustingly feminine gin and tonic a terrorist would never make me give up my drink. That's British solidarity

elgwyn · 04/06/2017 09:00

For goodness sake, people.

Londoners survived the Blitz. We survived the IRA bombing campaign.

Have a look at the graphs here:

www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015

(if you scroll down about half way, you can see the graph updated to include the recent Manchester attacks)

This shows you quite clearly that the threat from terrorism now is far lower than it was in the 1970s and 1980s, when we were young.

Nationcreationbusstation · 04/06/2017 09:03

Sometimes I wish this 2017 brand of social media had always existed so we could see the way the Brits of the 40s, 70s, 80s reacted to threats to our way of life. I think it's no good comparing this close examination of events we have in this day and age to the years gone past.

Userloser2 · 04/06/2017 09:12

I actually do feel more unsafe & worry for my sons. Terrorism aside there appears to be a big increase in knife/violent crime. Growing up in South London I was taught to avoid drugs, gangs & would largely stay safe, etc. However there have been a lot of recent attacks, man stabbed in Wandsworth, screwdriver attack in Dulwich Common on people unrelated to gangs & life appears to have little value. Too many teenagers have been killed & it should not be acceptable.

MyCalmX · 04/06/2017 09:18

Yes elgwyn being a Londoner is all about keeping hold of your pint Hmm

Ffs some attitudes are just too much for words.

Lostwithinthehills · 04/06/2017 09:20

Nobody has denied that black people have and continue to suffer from racism in society but that sad truth does not make this statement

logically it follows that there are more specifically racist police officers than specifically anti-racist police officers

true. L

my and many of the people I know's experience to go on

I can't comment on your experience, or that of the people you know, and I wouldn't question your experience, but to argue that you can extrapolate the personal experience of a small group of people (what is many? 10, 20, 50?) to make claims about the proportion of racist and anti-racist people employed by the police is wrong.

Your categorisation of police as racist/anti-racist/neutral is undefined. And your proportions more/higher/good number are also undefined. So your opinion really isn't "accurate enough".

AliTheMinx · 04/06/2017 09:28

I would feel very wary of going to London in view of recent events, as it's such an obvious target for terrorism. I completely get that life goes on and for those who live and work in London it is clear that they need to carry on as normal, but it would make me nervous to take my son into London and I don't think I would fully relax and always be on my guard. However, the response rate of the police and paramedics is phenomenal and I am full of admiration for the excellent work they do.