To wonder why women fall for this?

[Falalala]

My ex got remarried two years ago. He hasn't seen our son for four years. His choice. He hasn't paid a penny in maintenance, he ducked and dodged the CSA for ages and now I've given up.

He got together with his wife very soon after we split up. Not sure if she was OW. She's well off, and I suspect ex is a cocklodger with her as he was with me. She did send me some out of the blue texts telling me that I was a terrible person and I'd never be able to touch a penny of her money. Not nice, but I suspect ex was filling her head with shit. So I don't hold it against her.

Anyway, I've heard through mutual friends that she is pregnant. My son will have a sibling he'll probably never meet. It's dredged up a lot of thoughts and feelings to be honest. Ex has already abandoned one child. He's said some awful things about me,but if they were true then why was he happy to leave his son in my sole care? With no support?

Now he has another woman eating out of his hand, making herself vulnerable, and he'll probably fuck off on her in a few years too. and no doubt charm another woman into paying for him to sit on his ass.

I wonder about his wife now. Does she ever think of the child he abandoned and worry he will do the same to her? Will their happy family life seem hollow, knowing there's a little boy who for all they know, could be living a shit life? My son has a great life by the way, but how do they know that?

Maybe my experiences have made me overly cautious, but I really think men who don't support their children should be shunned. When a woman abandons her child she is vilified, she is seen as an unnatural bitch, but when a man does it he still has a queue of women lining up, ready to give him another chance, making excuses for him.

This really isn't right, is it? A man who abandons his children should not be seen as a good relationship option. I see this time and time again, they walk away scot free, only to do the same thing again

My ex lives the life of Riley, drives a fancy car, has multiple foreign holidays a year while I slave to afford a week's camping for DS. How on earth do.these people sleep at night?

He is outwardly rude to people - told my friends I looked like a whore, told my aunt I should lose weight, called his own mother a thick cunt to her face, hit his mother when he came home drunk one night.

I don't disagree with you at all, OP....

But ... don't know how to say this, really.

The guy's a total arsehole, clearly (see what you wrote above). Any yet you fell for him. Enough to have a relationship and get pregnant.

The only difference here is, he's compounded his fuckwittery by deserting his DC and sodding off with someone else.

But even before that, he was a truly awful person.

You've got the benefit of hindsight now. But back when you got together, you still fell for all of his bullshit.

I don't mean to make you feel bad. Just pointing out that love is blind. People fall for total dicks. There's nothing anyone can say to dissuade people from someone they think they're in love with. Nothing. People have to make their own mistakes.

This is cathartic, but I've just realised something else

I was in my first year of uni when I got pregnant, just turned 19. My ex was four years older.

I had a conversation with my HV once, when DS was small, where I had a good cry about how hard it was, how I struggled at times and how ex didn't help. He preferred to play video games and go to the pub

She basically told me that I needed to not expect too much from him, because he was a young man in his twenties and they are all immature, they don't grow up as quickly as girls, and it's a lot for him to handle. I should give him time and space and accept he still needs to act like a young man. I heard similar from other people over the years

I don't think I was even 21 at that stage, yet I as a young woman barely out of her teens was able to shoulder my responsibilities and accept my life had changed. Yet the same expectation was not extended to my ex, who was in fact older than me!

I had numerous dreams, interests and hobbies I gave up when I had DS. can you imagine if I had insisted on leaving weeks old DS for days at a time to go on the piss? Who would have said "she's only a young girl, she's immature and needs to let her hair down?"

Fucking nobody is who. They'd be on the phone to SS before you could say "gin and tonic,please"

KERALA - that could be because the majority of these deadbeat dads have gone off to some other woman, or a string of other women who all willingly accepted the bollocks they were told, thus multiple women enabling the single male's behaviour. The male is self-evidently vile, yet multiple women turn a blind eye to it.

I agree op. Mine went on and had a child with his possible ow and then did exactly the same to her. She has since told me she believed everything he said about me.

Socially he got away with it. Both me and his next gf had to leave town in order to support our children nearer our families as he pays 0 to either. We were both ostracised by the social group we were part of. I think because they were more comfortable turning a blind eye to his abuse than confronting him with it. They took the easiest route.

Our children both have step fathers but the emotional effect of his abandonment on my dc has been hard and not something I can fix.

Meanwhile, he is still happy with the same group of friends with two dc from different women who he does not support at all financially or emotionally. He has had no social problems at all whilst we were pushed out not just by him but by the group of friends.

Last I heard someone had even paid for him to have a holiday because they felt sorry for him!

On the other side, when I got together with him he told me his ex was controlling. I didn't believe it was that straight forward but I stupidly gave him the benefit of the doubt. There were no dc and she'd moved away. Just like me in years to come he painted a picture of an emotionally damaged woman who was hard to live with. It was easier to believe than the truth which is he was an abusive user. So I can see how friends get sucked in and find it easier to think the woman is over sensitive than the man wantingly uses people and had no qualms abandoning dc.

Too right Falalala

I agree with you Countess, in hindsight I could kick myself. Though most of the nasty crap came out after I got pregnant and I was trying to make it work. We hadn't been together very long and I was on the point of dumping him, then bam,pregnant. And I was young and stupid with no prior relationship experience.

I suppose that I'd expect women who are older, experienced, and intelligent to have more sense, but that doesn't seem to be the case. That worries me. It's hard to know at the start that a man is a nasty piece of work, but really, if he has kids he doesn't see, it should be a big fucking indicator that there's something off. And it doesn't seem to be. Men can have half a dozen abandoned children and still find willing partners. Where is the line drawn?

Because some women are just desperate and will have anyone

He is also quite charming,softly spoken and until you need him for anything you would never know he can be very nasty. So people just refuse to believe he could be so cruel. Despite witnessing the odd out burst themselves.

You've got the benefit of hindsight now. But back when you got together, you still fell for all of his bullshit

Except he didn't have children when the OP met him? So he wasn't actively ignoring a child, not avoiding maintenance payments. Falling in love with a loser when the clues don't involve children is different to actively standing by someone who pretends existing children are somehow not his problem.

Hindsight is wonderful. There were plenty of clues left by my ex when I look back. None of them involved not supporting existing children.

Remember that woman are told from birth that they are nothing without a man. That their highest ambition is to get a man and keep one. That every girls dream is a white frilly dress and your wedding day is the best day of your life.

And most women need a man's wages ( higher than women's ) to live at a decent standard.

So it's not surprising that some believe that any man is better than none.

Thank you needsahalo that's what I was trying to say, without painting myself in the light of an injured innocent! I should have realised sooner that he was a twat, but what daft 19 year old sees that in their future?

I also believe he had every intention of trapping me with him for as long as he could get away with it and having a child was part of that thinking. As was having his next child with his next gf. It gave him public kudos, especially the second time he did it, to say he can't be that bad as another woman has chosen to father his child. I even had people say this to my face months after he'd abandoned my dc. Women and men all said ' he can't be that bad '. And I hadn't told them what he'd done abuse wise so they were assuming he was abusive then telling me he can't have been. All very odd.

There was one person who stuck up for me but she'd had a terrible marriage she'd had to escape and could see what was going on. The rest satisfied themselves by convincing themselves he was normal and I was emotional.

I think there is enough evidence to point to there being a genetic element (most mammals don't have stick around dads) BUT it is not an excuse. Conversely, women should be recognised as the parents that do stick around and stronger laws put in place to support them and insist that men take responsibility and pay their way.
Society responds much more quickly than genetics so changes in father's behaviours that have happened over decades must be societal. Thus we have gone backwards since the 60s.
Women should support each other more and not let these hopeless dads move so easily onto the next partner.

I think the government should force payment. If the father says he can't afford it, he does community service.

The reason they don't is because this society puts men above women and children. The needs and rights of men outweigh the rights of the child. Also, they think women should stay with these men. And they don't recognise that often these men lived rent free whilst with these women.

The cocklodging part is the bit people refuse to believe the most. They can't get their heads round a grown man not looking after himself. It's financial abuse but society doesn't recognise it.

I fully acknowledged that in my post needsahalo.

But even without that, this guy seems like a special sort of fuckwit.

Calls his mother a cunt? Hits her? Calls the OP a whore....? He sounds like a deeply awful person, and I'm struggling understand what the OP ever saw in him, even without being a child deserter.

Age doesn't mean anything - totally see what you're saying about being a naive 19YO Falalala. But people of all ages are sucked in by arseholes. It's one of life's enduring mysteries...

Roundabout - good posts.

My ex went off with one of my friends. She had two children with two different guys who had both left her ( one was married). After being a supportive friend to her, I was gobsmacked when she actively dissuaded ex from being involved with his child with me. I couldn't believe that she needed my ex so badly that she forgot many times she had told me that her exes were twats for not seeing their children and how hard it was not having a father figure etc etc.

I would think much less of a man who could walk away from his children. Why wouldn't you? And after all the animosity ,ex and my old friend split up a few years later. Presumably because they are just both crap at recognising a healthy relationship.

I've often wondered about why these men are this way. I think the dysfunction can have many causes. Possibly for some it is genetic but I think they make a decision on their teens not to give a fuck about anyone else and that eventually includes their dc.

I also believe most functional people are passive and take the easiest routes in life that cause the least fuss. Thus women who end up with them ignore the warning signs and friends ignore the abandonment of the family. It's just easier for people rather than confront the truth. It's similar to those who refuse to believe a mother doesn't love a child and that they can't be that bad.

The trouble is the warning signs don't happen straight away and there are seemingly valid reasons for the lack of money eg. Hasn't been paid, wallet was stolen, had to pay another bill etc etc. Interspersed with arguments if you question these excuses so as a regular person you take the easy route and believe it until it's obvious it's bullshit.

Friends don't have the need to rely on these men so only ever hear the odd excuse and don't think about it too much. They may not even know he's not paying child support.

I used to fantasise about a billboard in his home town but even that could be excused by him as being the work of his mad ex.

They fall for him the same way you did.you are no better than them!

I do wonder if some women are automatically (and subconsciously) inclined to place more authority and credibility on a man's story over another woman's, especially if his version plays the 'she's crazy/unstable/unreliable' card.

If you're not taking a story on blind faith, it's hard to explain how you'd accept the huge logic holes in so many of these men's stories: the crazy ex who really reeeeally wanted to have sole financial, practical and emotional responsibility for two-under-twos (WHY?? And how shitty was your partner that THIS seemed the better option?)... or the bloke who loves his kids, tear-in-the-eye and all, but doesn't pay child support... or the batshit ex-wife who's so crazy he had no choice but to leave four kids in her sole care.*

(* certain men's rights activists: 'all this can be easily explained by the fact that mothers are vindictive child-stealing harpies who know that single motherhood is revered and rewarded and who are given encouragement to deprive fathers of their rights at every turn')

Even if you do eventually realise you've been told complete crap by your partner, I think the sunk cost fallacy might keep you from admitting this: you've invested too much time and faith in this guy and you're not ready to lose that until he actually screws you over. The really sad thing is that you probably don't get to this point until you've had kids with him yourself.

userwhatever, many men described here have accumulated a record of shitty behaviour, but if you're one of their earliest relationships then you don't get to see this. Post break-up, though, you watch the pattern repeating itself, and when you see women who know of the past behaviour still choosing to build a relationship with the guy, I think it's reasonable to be frustrated and incredulous and wonder why. It's not a question of being 'better' than anyone.

nachogazpacho Community service costs money to run, and you cannot let it replace the paid work of honest people. And it does not collect money for the PWC.

The fact is that the means of enforcing debt in this country are inadequate and that does not only apply to CM. How you solve it I don't know except that it's no us throwing good money after bad.

I agree with Coral about the pressure to be with someone. Many women overlook a whole pile of shit just to have a partner.

It's not worth getting into how to make child support obligatory.any many countries have managed to make it work so obviously it is possible. The UK govt could adopt any number of schemes used elsewhere.

If they wanted to.

Many women overlook a whole pile of shit just to have a partner.

In the case of a relative of mine, she ignored her partner sexually abusing her daughter from a previous relationship for over TEN YEARS. Sometimes while she was even in the same bed.