Bossy or assertive?

[Crabpears]

AIBU to not fully understand what sort of behaviour is assertive and what is bossy?

By bossy I mean constantly commenting in a negative or overly critical way about how other people do things making it seem nothing is ever good enough. People who have an angry vibe if you don't things exactly the way they expect (e.g. mixing squash too weak, too sweet).
Or ordering others about rather than asking politely. People for whom nothing you or others do is ever really good enough.

To me bossiness is an unpleasant and ever so slightly threatening 'tone'.

Alternatively, do you know assertive people who don't come across as bossy? Are you one of these people? How do you do it?

I currently volunteer at a charity and the line manager in the store is so incredibly demanding making me feel like nothing I do is ever enough. I personally think I am doing alright and am getting increasingly fed up as I am giving my time freely and happily and getting negative vibes in return.

I'm not sure your definition is correct

IMO being bossy is when you instruct people what to do in a very direct way without any negotiation and without and official authority to be the person in charge. I would say you can be bossy with a smile on your face or in an aggressive way. Sometimes being bossy is necessary, other times less so.

Assertive means you make your wishes very clear without leaving any room for doubt what it is you want. Again, it can be done in a nice or nasty way.

The main difference I would say is that bossiness is about telling other people what to do where as being assertive doesn't necessarily involve telling people what to do and could involve stating what you aren't prepared to do yourself or what the desired result needs to be but without specified method required to get there.

shaggedthruahedgebackwards that's a thoughtful and helpful explanation.

It;'s interesting that you distinguish between instructing (telling other people what to do) and asserting yourself (stating what you aren't prepared to do yourself or what the desired result needs to be but without specified method required to get there.)

I can work very well with people who do the latter but suffer under people who do the former.

I am currently volunteering for a charity and my line manager in the store is incredibly bossy and never seems pleased with my work making me feel anxious and frustrated. For example, I am making hot drinks for the team and she says it's too strong and when I add more milk, it's too milky. I try to apply myself by being proactive without being pushy and learning the trade so to speak. I get this vibe that nothing is ever good enough. When I offer to do a task e.g. to sort the children's clothes, try and do it to a high standard and again she seems fed up with that too. She is like this with pretty much everyone and has a reputation for taking in no uncertain terms.

I have met people like this many times over, e..g flatmates, other students during group work and line managers in the work place (not all of course, I work very well with people who lead but give room for people to make their own decisions). I worry about those 'leaders' / managers etc .who have this slightly hostile vibe where there is an undercurrent of 'threat' that if you displease them, you can expect them too very displeased and to be at risk of falling out of grace.

I am unable to assert self with these types of people. Why??

It depends upon your perspective.

Usually if a woman asserts herself at work she is bossy. If a man says the same thing he is assertive.

I'm being slightly cynical, but if you assert yourself and someone doesn't like what you have to say they will describe you as boosy.

I would also say your boss may be assertive, but she sounds like a shite line manager.

Have just twigged bossy comes from boss. 😶

In my experience, if people are discussing a mans actions, they use assertive, it's a positive trait. If people are discussing a woman, it becomes bossy, a negative trait.

Your line manager sounds over critical and controlling

Von I know what you mean but there are women who are naturally leaders or very competent and secure and who can assert themselves without coming across as overbearing.

The being told what to do and slightly hostile vibes, which make you afraid of falling-out of grace is what I am specifically talking about. It gives the person who is being ordered about very little chance to do a task in an autonomous way. It feels oppressive rather than motivating.

It's very much a 'my way or the highway' type of attitudes.

The reason I am posting this is that I have met several people like this over the years who have made me feel quite miserable.

For example, a uni friend moved into my flatshare. My flatmate agreed to this. Uni friend didn't pay any rent and stayed several weeks camping in the shared living room. When another male friend of mine wanted to visit me I asked 3 weeks ahead of his visit if my uni friend could stay two nights at another friend's house so male friend could sleep on sofa bed in the living room. She completely freaked out at this and a silly drama ensued. She thought it was outrageous that I asked if my friend could sleep in the living room for two nights. She did have other friends she could have stayed with but refused to.

I also do find it difficult to assert myself because the few times I have done (at work, flatshare) people have fallen out with me. So now I don't dare assert myself as I worry about falling out.

It's all making me massively miserable.

Men (and boys) are assertive
Women (and girls) are bossy

Em I agree that it can be like that especially when doing ordinary thing such as returning faulty items at a shop, dh doesn't get questioned and treated very politely whereas I worry about coming across as rude or too strongly when I do the exact same thing.

But what I am talking about is something more. People who have a demanding attitude and where not meeting their expectations (whether expressed or implied) means they treat you less nice.

I have worked with a couple of guys who have this bossy and slightly threatening attitude too over the years.

I notice that bossy seems to be a word that people use for women being assertive.

What you describe just sounds unreasonable and bullying.

Assertive is getting what you want in a way that doesn't diminish the other person. Assertive people are respectful of other people.

Bossy is getting what you want irrespective of the other persons wants and desires, bossy people may just be very direct in speech or they could use bullying and intimidation to get what they want.

I agree that's a great definition Secret.

The question is how does one best navigate those who " seek to get what they want irrespective of the other persons wants and desires"? You can't avoid these type of people.

How can I be assertive with them without resorting to that same 'tone'?

This person I am talking about and others I have previously encountered have 'angry' vibes. They can be very nice and charming but their tone changes instantly when you are not doing things in exactly the way they expect.

Bossy is when someone tells you what to do and doesn't ask. Assertive is when someone asks and gives you reasons why and won't take shit and be walked all over

"They can be very nice and charming but their tone changes instantly when you are not doing things in exactly the way they expect." and doing that is obviously pretty impossible e.g. doing things in exactly the way they want. I agree baby.

In short it's a matter of respect, getting what you want by being respectful to the other person (assertive) or not, as the case maybe (aggressive/ bossy).
If you are coming away from an interaction with a boss feeling worthless/ fearful as opposed to inspired/ motivated then you have a boss that is the latter - bossy/ bully.
I imagine they don't hold onto many vols if they have a boss like that at the helm.

I think in the workplace in general a competent confident boss will give you a task but without ordering you to do it or micromanaging you.

Secret's definition is good.

In your scenario above you are clearly not in the wrong. Uni friend probably knows this deep down, but also knows that with most people if she kicks up a fuss she will get her own way, because it's do unreasonable the other person will think, "Really? That sounds so unreasonable, but they are acting like it isn't, am I wrong?"

A calm but indifferent attitude would work. Failing that, blag it and pretend you are calm but indifferent.

There was a great thread a little while ago about people who are calm. It links it, if I can find it, it will make sense.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2931450-What-makes-someone-like-this-ridiculously-calm

I wouldn't describe her behaviour as either bossy or assertive. Bossy, as someone said further up, is instructing in a very direct way with no room for negotiation with kind of a 'I know best' way.

Assertive is being respectful to the other person but making your own opinion known in a nice way.

This woman just sounds like a good, old-fashioned pain in the arse. You can't really change her but you can change your reaction. If I had someone standing over me while I was making tea and it was either too strong or too milky I'd simply hand over to them and say 'you'd better make it since you know how you like it. I tend to drink it either way if someone else has made it.'

I did have a boss like this and he drove me mad. I started to think I was pretty useless until he was replaced by someone who was my polar opposite, worked in exactly the same way as me and just let me get on with it. My boss went on and on about my being untidy and disorganised. The assistants then went on about it. When he left, nothing was ever said about it ever. The truth was, while i wasn't tidy tidy, I wasn't messy either.

I worked out he was just a fuss pot and it was 100% his problem. I was not the only one who clashed with him either. Loads of people didn't like him.

Assertive people maintain thier own boundaries, bossy people break down the boundaries of others.

Thier, really? Holy fuck, a new low.

For me bossy is when it's about you overruling other people. Assertive is when it's about your needs.

Practise being calm, assertive and not caring about pleasing everyone. A lot of people I know (myself included) please others at the expense of their own wants and needs. Don't do it any more. Make a conscious choice to think everything through in terms of what works for you and if it doesn't, calmly state "that won't work for me".

It's an old MN cliche that 'no' is a complete sentence but it's totally true. I use it on the DCs when they're being outrageous instead of explaining myself to them. They've worked out that when they get that calm, dead-eyed 'no' it's time to sort their shit out. It's good for people to see you have boundaries and limits.

Thank you all, your replies are really helping me get my head around this issue. Von for the link, I did follow that thread with interest .

I do tend to keep calm but then end up feeling really unhappy and anxious later on (especially during night time) as I feel not doing as I'm told with result in some sort of trouble. For instance, leaving this volunteering job because of said manager might prevent me from getting another volunteering role or even a good job in the future.

It feels like being assertive would mean leaving the charity as I find this person a bits scary. She talks badly about some other people who also volunteer. Not all mind but some who don't live up to her expectations.

You need to learn to assert your own needs. So figure out what has bothered you about each of the interactions in the examples given and address them with the culprits, in a calm and respectful way.

In addition some people can be very predatory and they will sense weakness and will talk down /take the piss If you let them. So you need to work on your self esteem too, if that is a problem.

Why would she be able to stop you volunteering? I thought charities were crying out for people? Do you think she has that much power? Leave if it's too much. It's not as if you're even getting paid for this shit. I'd understand it if it were a job and you needed the money. If you do want to stay and don't want to be beaten, complain to her superior because she will have one unless she is the CEO, in which case, she should have more on her mind than how to make the perfect brew.