"Ful time mum" on CV- yes or no?

[likeababyelephant]

I just received a rejection from a job a spent ages tailoring my CV for and writing a very good cover letter for. Only to be told there were others with better skills/more experience. This is for an HR entry level job btw.

I can't help but think that it's because I put "full time mother" on my CV. But I would expect recruiters to seek to diversify their workforce, especially as it's an HR job. Are they discriminating against mothers or something?

Should I omit this information from my CV. I feel like I have better/more skills as a mother than I did before I had DD.

No Leda I've not claimed to be talking about one poster.

I said the thread was depressing partly because a few posters insisted kids should be a big secret (for women) at interview.

The othet reason was all the snide jeering at the very idea that SAHMs might mentiom their role or skills on a CV.

I'm not aware I've said anything remotely controversial, and yet I've had several posters arguing the toss with me.

To be clear, my points rest on the assumption that some (many, even) employers will subtly discriminate against mothers. This is because the emergency childcare falls to women more often than not. This is not news.

It's also not news that SAHPs (male and female) are sometimes undervalued. Mocking their attempts to make the best of their skills on a CV is not on. Genuine advice is, of course, fine.

I said the thread was depressing partly because a few posters insisted kids should be a big secret (for women) at interview

Dear god.
Not talking about your kids at interview does not = making them "a big secret".

Keeping things in context is not erasing them from the face of the earth!

You can be the loudest proudest mummy on the planet and keep to the topic at hand when interviewing for a job! it's not mutually exclusive!

Some posters advised women to keep children secret during those moments. Why?
Because that's not what you're there to talk about
and if that's all you can think of to chat about when having an informal tour of a potential work place - you aren't that interested in that work place are you? or at least you're appearing to not be!

Ok, for starters, someone called Beebeeeight advised the OP to hide any trace of having a child. (Around page 11 of this thread) That's not the same as the topic 'not coming up'. Or is it? You seem to think so.

I'm amazed that you seem to think that, in a discussion about women, babies and the work place, it's somehow unlikely that there's some sexist bullshit afoot.

Let me ask you this... are there men on some parallel website being encouraged to airbrush out any trace of fatherhood?

It's very telling that some people are offended by the very term 'full-time mother'. The argument seems to be that the employer will be offended that you're somehow insulting their choices. Maybe they will. But I'd lay money on those offended enployers being female and not male. Again, women's choices, wording, division of time is under scrutiny. Women do not feel fully vindicated whichever choice they make.

That's not your fault, OP's fault or any individual employer's fault. But it's reality. I'm not making this shit up.

But to pretend a woman doesn't have to be more careful than a man in how she presents herself for employment is total bullshit. It's depressing. As I said.

But to pretend a womandoesn'thave to be more careful than a man in how she presents herself for employment is total bullshit.
Exactly.

If children come up then a comment about them being 'lovely kids. I think I've got a good ride with my 2. I can't imagine having 2 needy/fussy children' suffices. Or 'Yes I've been fortunate to have that time with them but if I'm honest I'm ready to be back at work'.

Unfortunately, the assumption (and usual truth) is that it's women who come out of work, women who end up taking time off for sick days etc. So a woman going on endlessly about her children isn't going to help change this idea.
Plus, at work I tend not to hear men filling all the work chat time with children chat. Again, little things that feed stereotypes.

1. Keep your CV relevant whilst being honest about a 'career break to raise a family'.
2. Keep work chat professional and any references to family to a minimum

Going on and on about how hard life is as a SAHP and how you can do any job because of SAHP duties, your CV has a list of SAHP thinhs and then the informal chat at interview is all about children etc then the impression to the employer is that you may be flaky as soon as little one gets a sniffle.

One poster = thread is depressing?

Thats the point. 99% of peoplr said its not relevant. One poster said to hide it.

One. That doesnt make the thread depressing. Or the 99% saying what one poster did. We may all agree you shouldnt put sonething on a cv. We don't agree on the reasons why.

Its not relevant and an interviewer shouldnt ask you. That works both ways.

Skills you pick up as a parent are not professional skills or skills that will automatically translate into the work place. You may have all the patience in the world with the kids and non at work.

I cant rock up and get a job fitting kitchens just because i fit my own last year. A skill on your CV needs to relevant and provenbin the work place. My kitchen fitting is not.

Maisy we're arguing the same point then. You agree that women need to be more careful. To self-edit. A man could freely mention his kids in passing. It might seem natural to do so at a certain point in a conversation. A woman MUSTN'T.

Lots of you don't find that depressing. I do.

Let me ask you this... are there men on some parallel website being encouraged to airbrush out any trace of fatherhood?

A man who wasted an interview (or space on his CV) talking about irrelevant stuff from his personal life would be equally as unlikely to be sucessful

That is not denying sexism, which does exist, it's just basic interview advise.

merchant
Totally agree. I think a small passing comment from a man or woman that's innocuous would be OK. But for a woman to say much more would make people twitch and think she's going to be unreliable.

Anecdotally though, my female colleagues spend more work time chatting children than male colleagues so whilst I find it depressing that women have to self censor, I can see why the stereotypes exist. Men simply tend not to bring kids up all the time the way some women do.

What needs to happen is for employers to be more open to the fact BOTH men and women have family responsibilities and for the group of women who won't shut up about kids/parenting to spend a little less work time chatting about non work stuff.

Hmmm I work ft and have 2 dc and dislike the term 'full time mum'. Obviously misguided to put it on a cv.

In terms of Interviews, I got a big promotion 18m ago and the interview was FULL ON, a full day of tasks, data analysis, presentation and panel interview....I actually knew one of the senior managers from my last workplace, she had left about 5 years previously. Perhaps because of this she wasn't in the formal panel interview but did the informal bits like meet and greet, site tour etc. Rightly or wrongly, I was sure to mention to her under the guise of casual chit chat the fact that I had had 2 dcs in the time since I'd last worked with her, because I thought it might indicate that I'd had my family and wasn't about to go off on maternity as soon as I got the job (I was 31) which incidentally the unsuccessful internal candidate did.....

Oh Maisy I see we're not arguing the same point then. I'm not talking about women 'going on' about their children.

I literally mean that if a man made a passing comment that revealed he had kids it would be a non-event. If a woman did the same, some employers would go into overdrive speculating about the women's domestic commitments. That's a sad fact.

Leda - no, the one poster was the first one I picked out in a cursory scroll back through. The whole tone of one section of the thread was about how to construct a CV that didn't 'give away' that you had a child. A man doesn't have this pressure.

I'm aghast that some of you are going out of your way to perpetuate harmful stereotypes such as that women 'never shit up' about their kids. I despair.

Let me ask you this... are there men on some parallel website being encouraged to airbrush out any trace of fatherhood?

How many men in an interview for a professional job would give an example of a time they broke up a squabble among their young DC as an example of their diplomacy skills?

There is rampant sexism in the workplace, absolutely. But sometimes you (as in women) need to give yourself a fighting chance too.

Led a you keep dropping in that you fitted your own kitchen, is this a stealth boast?

(only teasing, I am genuinely impressed!)

And I'm very pleased to work in an organisation where men as much as women chat about their children and are also expected to shoulder the domestic burden.

*never shut up, not shit!

Aye but no woman on this thread has given that example in an interview either. In fact, that idea of women claiming skills in diplomacy based on motherhood was given by a poster taking the piss out of the sort of thing a SAHM might say, and how they as the employer would find that most risible.

Hardly supportive of SAHMs.

But I agree with your point about rampant sexism. And you're right that women need to give themselves a fighting chance. But that in itself is what's depressing - that women still have to try twice as hard to 'cancel out' their motherhood.

Baffled that others don't find that depressing.

MerchantofVenice
We have similar views buy different thresholds. I think a comment like 'Yes, I've got kids but lucky they're not fussy and I can get myself back to work' would be passable.
Women have to censor a lot more BECAUSE of those people who do go on and on and want days off left right and centre because they child has a sniffle. Dated stereotypes exist and it's harder to smash them when some people carry on reinforcing them.

In some lines of work I'd be entirely with you that a whiff of child talk would be a problem though. And that IS depressing. Men mentioning children at interviews was found to gain them points in the eyes of the company because of all the great qualities it has (and probably the implicit assumption that when it comes to time off it won't be the man taking it).

I'm aghast that some of you are going out of your way to perpetuate harmful stereotypes such as that women 'never shit up' about their kids. I despair.
It's not people talking about it that perpetuates it. What perpetuates harmful stereotypes is the fact that women disproportionately end up doing yhe bulk of leaving early, taking days etc.
What also affects it is the gender difference in the workplace of topic of conversation. Anecdotally, the people I know at work who talk non stop about kids are the female colleagues, not male colleagues. Now that is NOT suggesting all women do it, but those people that do that and do call in off over tiny things make it much more difficult for women trying to smash down damaging stereotypes.

I'm very pleased to work in an organisation where men as much as women chat about their children and are also expected to shoulder the domestic burden.
Men and women discuss family life at my place quite openly (I'd still not bring it up at interview mind). Though I do think there's family chat and family chat e.g. I'll happily hear about family holidays, I really don't need to hear about the perils of breastfeeding with lots of details.

Maisy I work on breastfeeding (among other things) so am always happy to hear the details :)

In fairness, Mumsnet is packed full of women who prioritise their DH's job. Surprise, surprise, he is always the higher earner or had greater earning potential (apparently) so that is why it made sense for them to step back/go part time/utterly spork their own career to further their DHs. In that context, it is bonkers to start talking about your children in interview as you are further reinforcing the sexist status quo that as a mother, you will be the one taking any child related time off.

Yes it's always such a surprise that dh earned more. And they earnestly describe how in their exact circumstances it made sense for the woman to stay home but imply it could have just as easily been the other way round.

Exactly. And they're outraged when anyone notices that, saying "we just did what was best for the family!" - not realising they're contributing to the circular stereotype, because by removing themselves from the workforce they are ensuring more men will get into the positions they could have had, going on to be top earners. Companies will also be dubious when hiring 30-something women, thinking they will all last a year then quit their jobs to have kids.

Then they go for the "it's feminist because I made the choice" - not really, the circumstances were set up so that choice was most appealing. Then you just contribute to the status quo.

A woman at my work said she felt it was so pointless working while her kids were in nursery, because all her money was going on it - but then she was so glad when they went to school, as her husband divorced her and now she is V.senior and supports her kids herself.

Yes it's always such a surprise that dh earned more.
Surprises me too. But then I earn a bit more than DH, not by much. But then thr wage gap exists (even before maternity leaves) so I'm open to my friendship circle not being representative.

A woman at my work said she felt it was so pointless working while her kids were in nursery, because all her money was going on it
Me and DH were talking about this in case we end up with 2 under 2. Childcare would wipe my wages (or his depending on how you look at it) but longer term it's better for us both to be in work in case one of us faces redundancies, gets ill etc.

I earn less than dh. I'm on a mission to change that