"Ful time mum" on CV- yes or no?

[likeababyelephant]

I just received a rejection from a job a spent ages tailoring my CV for and writing a very good cover letter for. Only to be told there were others with better skills/more experience. This is for an HR entry level job btw.

I can't help but think that it's because I put "full time mother" on my CV. But I would expect recruiters to seek to diversify their workforce, especially as it's an HR job. Are they discriminating against mothers or something?

Should I omit this information from my CV. I feel like I have better/more skills as a mother than I did before I had DD.

On the contrary Leda - some posters have explicitly said not to give the merest hint that you have children, whether on cv or at interview.

I am in no doubt that this is because employers will discriminate (as unobtrusively as they can) against a woman who might be called to pick up domestic slack over childcare at any moment.

Men aren't being told 'keep your kids a secret from employers' because there is no assumption fatherhood will hamper their efforts in the workplace.

I realise this is at a slight tangent to the original post. But the call to hide your status as a mother comes from this basic inequality.

Some posters are just compounding it by all but suggesting it's a good thing to indulge in this avoidance of 'admitting' you have children and therefore other responsibilities.

Actually men are encourged to only have relavant stuff on their CV.

So again a gap would need to be explained. But other than that. There is no need.

Being a parent is not relevant. For either men or women.

Its not about airbrushing motherhood out. Its about including relevant info.

Yes, but I feel we're slightly at cross purposes here; I'm referring specifically to the posters who were clear that even at interview you don't mention, as a woman, that you have children. I'm afraid I can't remember who said this (but it was more than one poster). The reason for this subterfuge is obvious.

My other point was that I'm sure all the advice given by recruiters on this thread is true and helpful BUT the sneering and laughing that went along with SOME of it is neither pleasant nor helpful.

My last 3 interviews-I got all 3 jobs btw - my DD came up in conversation, but in those cases it came up in such a way that it was during more casual chat. I think it was probably during conversation where I mentioned the not directly related business I also run (childcare), which kind of leads to it. However, in that context it also comes up in a way which makes it clear that my childcare is very much sorted.

If there is a heavy focus on children on the CV or in the interview it creates a question in the employers mind about priorities. Unless you are able to provide very strong assurance that it's not going to impact excessively on your employer then it's better not to mention it.

Most men don't mention their children in interviews either.

But I'm sad that so many posters seem really happy about this whole business of erasing any whiff of motherhood from your cv, don't dream of admitting you're a parent at interview etc

OH calm down!

Keeping your CV relevant isn't erasure!

I don't put my sexuality on my CV either, or my marital status, that doesn't mean that who I am is SILENCED! Jez there's a load of hyperbole on this thread!

The fact is that minding your own children or cleaning your own house is not relevant on a CV. That is NOT the same as saying it is a meaningless unimportant task in it's own context, it's just that it's not demonstrating employability skills!

merchant its because its not relevant.

I talked about kids at one interview. An internal one with someone i knew who asked about her as he had met her a few times. My employer knew i had a kid so no way did it impact it.

Other than that its just not relevant. So no you dont talk about things that arent relavant at an interview.

Tinsel judging by your excited use of exclamation marks, I'd say you were the one who needs to calm down...

I have (repeatedly now) explained that I was referring specifically to the posters who were insistent that children must not be brought up in conversation at interview for fear of creating panic in employers who might start making all sorts if assumptions. I was not at that point referring to CVs at all.

Children do naturally come up in conversation, even with strangers, in a way that your sexuality might not. The message from some posters was clear: don't let them know you have children.

Caveat: initially, I admit, I included a reference to CVs. I apologise. But the point about steering conversation carefully away from children at interview definitely still stands.

Look! if I volunteered at the local dogs shelter, and applied to work in a bank! I wouldn't put the dog shelter on my CV and I wouldn't talk about it in interview either

Because
A. It's not relevant. If I bore them with irrelevant stuff they won't read as far as the bit where I say I'ld be an awesome bank employee
B. If I keep mentioning it they'll think I would rather be there than at work with the bank and I'ld leave as soon as I got a chance to do more hours with the dogs

It's the same with children, it's not saying that parenting (or volunteering with rescue dogs) isn't worthy - it's just NOT RELEVANT on CVs or in interview, and you have such as short amount of words/time to show how you are suitable for the job you don't wanna be wasting words/breath on irrelevant stuff - you'll lose them!

With respect, Leda, I think you're being naive. If an employer already knows you have a child, sure, it makes no difference. But be under no illusion that some employers, whilst knowing that they can't be seen to ask directly or judge on that basis, will be sniffing around to ascertain your parental status. If you're a woman, that is.

It probably won't come up actually in the interview per se, but most interview processes will involve, at the very least, a bit of chit chat or a lunch etc. People chat!

I seem to have wandered into one of those MN parallel dimension thingies. This is the one where there's no sexism in the work place...

Children do naturally come up in conversation, even with strangers

It's an interview, not making chit-chat at a bus stop
if you want the job you'll be keeping the topic on your suitability for the job and you'll leave the kids/family chat until you have the job and are making small talk in the staff room

But Tinsel have you never had a chat over coffee before/after an interview?? D
Have you always marched straight into the interview room and got down to business?? Genuinely baffled.

Every interview I've ever had has been at least half a day - chat, coffee, tour of site, couple of interviews, lunch... You chat!

I'm under no illusions that there's massive sexism in many workplaces, believe me.

Full time mum sounds a bit desperate to fill a gap.

A CV is for work experience and employment history, skills, qualifications etc.

I would just explain somewhere that you took X amount of years out of the workplace to raise/support your children, and you are now ready and raring to get back into work. It essentially means the same thing but sounds more professional.

Yes but at every point you are still being interviewed

Yes - exactly stealth - so, whilst you are under no obligation to keep chat relevant to the job, you are still being assessed. And some posters specifically advised you to keep that sort of chat away from children.

They didn't say 'oh, children won't come up because they're not relevant.' They said 'don't let them know you have children.' BIG difference.

*t Tinsel have you never had a chat over coffee before/after an interview?? D
Have you always marched straight into the interview room and got down to business?? Genuinely baffled.

Every interview I've ever had has been at least half a day - chat, coffee, tour of site, couple of interviews, lunch... You chat!

The tour, being offered a coffee etc, is part of the interview - you should be steering the chit chat in a direction that favours you for the job and showing an interest in your potential colleagues, not banging on about your kids! If you do that they'll just think you don't want to be there! If you're unable to demonstrate your professional friendliness during the informal bits to the point where they're resorting to "so, are you married? kids?" to fill the painful silence, you're not winning and you need to turn it around FAST!

It's like when they're showing you in and they ask "did you find the place okay?"
What they're really asking is is this person going to make a big deal about the traffic and the parking every morning, or are they going to just get here and get on with it
They're not "making chit chat"
The correct answer is "yes thank you, it's not far at all for me/it's a pretty straight forward route from mine/or similar.."

An employer (one who knows their stuff) won't spontaneously bring up the topic of children, ever - because it isn't job relevant and could be viewed as discriminatory. It's not actually illegal to ask 'do you have children?' But it's bad practice, because it sets you up for the claim that you discriminate on that basis.

I would advise a woman who wants to get the job or get ahead not to mention her children in an interview, for two reasons. One is that there is still plenty of conscious and unconscious bias out there. And the other is that every piece of data you put on the table in an interview counts heavily, because the interviewer is contemplating making a high-stakes decision with very limited available data. If you make one of those pieces of data the fact that you spontaneously brought up your children, the interviewer may wonder if your children dominate your life.

Oh and I've had lots of interviews in my life and they've generally been... just interviews, no lunch or 'casual' coffee. I'd rather keep the conversation on work in those early days and chit-chat about my kids after I've got the job and they know me better.

With respect, Leda, I think you're being naive. If an employer already knows you have a child, sure, it makes no difference. But be under no illusion thatsomeemployers, whilst knowing that they can't be seen to ask directly or judge on that basis, will be sniffing around to ascertain your parental status. If you're a woman, that is.

I knew my employer and knew the interviewer. I know for a fact my sex/ martial status and motherhood dont enter thr equation. I was infact 8 months pregnant at that interview and still got a substantial promotion.

I have always had a chat eith interviewers. But you are still being interviewed. So no. I dont chat about anything relevant to the job.

In my current job i was asked about community work (company is massive on charity work) so i mentioned that i kickbox and that I organised several events to raise £10k to send some kids to the world championships because their parents couldnt afford it. I mentioned kickboxing not because its hard work or because its taught me skills like patience. But because it was relevant to the question. How and why i got involved in raising money.

I am under no illusion that sexism is in the workplace. However (since I am now brought into interviews for my new memvers joining my operation) i wouldn't be keen on anyonr talking about anything not relevant men or women.

Your post that i first repsonded to talked about how depressing the thread was. Now say you are talking about one poster.

Interviews and CVs should be relevant. Calling yourself an excellent crisis manager because you have kids is not relevant.

I think I've addressed those points in my previous post Tinsel.

Yes, you're being assessed during the 'informal' bits.

Some posters advised women to keep children secret during those moments. Why?

Because its not relevant to your job.

And its noy keeping kids secret. Its keeping the converstation relevant.

Aarghh!! I feel like I keep saying the same thing bit it's inexplicably incomprehensible.

That's. Not. What. The. Posters. I'm. Referring. To. Said.

They were explicitly counselling applicants to deliberately avoid mentioning children. NOT on the grounds of irrelevance, but in a 'keep it secret' way.

I will have to scroll all the way back and find a quote, I guess.