To be scared of Labours Land tax

[Dragongirl10]

Just read about this, Labour are proposing a Land Value Tax on any land owned, could cost thousands a year for anyone even with a small house, not just the rich....they have not publicised this at all.

People with modest homes could be forced to sell or go into debt, or be repossessed...

What's the difference between "we will consider going on holiday next year, possibly abroad to somewhere like Marbella"
and
"We will spend £17,500 going to Marbella next year?"

The fact that John McDonnell, Labour's Shadow Chancellor has been campaigning for this for over 10 years?

Can you give us the actual name of any Labour MP who has denied that this tax will be introduced?

Gosh, this thing's going round in circles. It is only mentioned in the manifesto as a possibility that will be explored as part of a proposal to look into potential alternatives to council tax. It is a named example of possible alternatives, but the gist of that section is "we will see if there's a better way to do this". Anyone suggesting anything more than that is extrapolating and scaremongering.

I could suggest a million terrible things that any one of the parties "might" do based on how I feel about them and what I perceive their priorities and/or trustworthiness to be, but it would be pure, fanciful speculation with only slightly less grounding than this pile of crap. Just because someone used the words "land value tax" in their manifesto does not mean you can legitimately extrapolate that we're all going to be selling off our gardens to pay for it.

If you're scared of Labour and you're looking for reasons, just say "I'm scared Labour don't like people like me and I'm winding myself up imagining all the many, many things they might do that could cost me dearly". And I'll tell you something; I'm scared of the Tories. I'm scared of what they've done to our public services, our disabled and less well off, our schools, and I'm scared of all the other terrible things they will do if/when they get another 5 years to lash us. But I don't pretend that lashing is explicitly written in their manifesto. Because it isn't. Well, not all of it anyway.

John McDonnell talked about the LVT ten years ago. Have none of you changed your mind on an issue in the past ten years?

The manifesto states they will initiate a review of council tax and business rates and consider new options such as a land value tax. Nowhere does it say a LVT will be introduced, or if it was at what level it would be set at.

All this scaremongering stinks of desperation.

You think no government would bring in a policy that meant people would be faced by an outrageous bill.

No, Olivers, I wouldn't, because I remember that the Thatcher woman winched up interest rates so that people couldn't afford to pay their mortgages. The road where I live was built by homeowners, all but one of whom had to move out within five years when repayments became unaffordable.

But that was a policy which only affected the common people.

Can you give us the actual name of any Labour MP who has denied that this tax will be introduced?

We don't have any MPs at the moment.

But straight from the Labour Party:

Labour is the best and only option for working people. We would ensure that tax on property remains low, while the Conservatives cost you more. WLabour is the best and only option for working people. We would ensure that tax on property remains low, while the Conservatives cost you more. We won’t be taxing people’s gardens. The Tories are throwing around false claims to try and distract from their own policies.

Labour’s plan is for a fair taxation system where those on middle and lower incomes are protected. We have ruled out increasing VAT or National Insurance and we won’t put up income tax for anyone but the richest five per cent of the population. The Conservatives have failed to match this commitment. Theresa May would hit working people and pensioners with further tax rises.

The Conservatives want to deny this truth. They are trying to play politics and spread scare stories about what Labour is planning. They are deliberately trying to mislead people.

Here are the facts about our tax plans.

Labour’s will not be introducing a new tax on people’s homes

We won’t be taxing people’s gardens; it’s not going to happen. The Tories are simply throwing around false claims to try and distract from their own real policies: to hit pensioners and working people with a dementia tax, cuts to the Winter Fuel Allowance and further tax rises on middle and low earners.
Labour’s manifesto commits us to making council tax fairer: our plan is to see what needs to be done to ensure that working people don’t pay more. We'll look at how we can make council tax fairer but we’ll not be introducing a separate Land Value Tax on residential property.

Labour costs you less

Council tax is lower with Labour: Where Labour controls the local council, households will pay on average £336 less this year than those living in Conservative areas.
Conservatives cost you more: The Conservatives said they would keep council tax down, yet it is rising rapidly and will be 25 per cent higher by the end of the decade than in 2015. The average council tax per dwelling in a Labour council area is £1042.31, versus £1,378.45 in Tory council areas.

Labour will ensure a fair tax system. We will protect lower and middle earners in the tax system while the Tories refuse to rule out new tax increases for these people.

Labour’s sensible, fully-costed plans are the right approach for working people. We will build a country for the many not just a privileged few. We won’t be taxing people’s gardens. The Tories are throwing around false claims to try and distract from their own policies.

Labour’s plan is for a fair taxation system where those on middle and lower incomes are protected. We have ruled out increasing VAT or National Insurance and we won’t put up income tax for anyone but the richest five per cent of the population. The Conservatives have failed to match this commitment. Theresa May would hit working people and pensioners with further tax rises.

The Conservatives want to deny this truth. They are trying to play politics and spread scare stories about what Labour is planning. They are deliberately trying to mislead people.

Here are the facts about our tax plans.

Labour’s will not be introducing a new tax on people’s homes

We won’t be taxing people’s gardens; it’s not going to happen. The Tories are simply throwing around false claims to try and distract from their own real policies: to hit pensioners and working people with a dementia tax, cuts to the Winter Fuel Allowance and further tax rises on middle and low earners.
Labour’s manifesto commits us to making council tax fairer: our plan is to see what needs to be done to ensure that working people don’t pay more. We'll look at how we can make council tax fairer but we’ll not be introducing a separate Land Value Tax on residential property.

Labour costs you less

Council tax is lower with Labour: Where Labour controls the local council, households will pay on average £336 less this year than those living in Conservative areas.
Conservatives cost you more: The Conservatives said they would keep council tax down, yet it is rising rapidly and will be 25 per cent higher by the end of the decade than in 2015. The average council tax per dwelling in a Labour council area is £1042.31, versus £1,378.45 in Tory council areas.

Labour will ensure a fair tax system. We will protect lower and middle earners in the tax system while the Tories refuse to rule out new tax increases for these people.

Labour’s sensible, fully-costed plans are the right approach for working people. We will build a country for the many not just a privileged few.

desperation? hysyteria? panic?

Why would the conservative campaigners have such feelings at a time like this?

The two prongs of the conservative campaign were:

• Theresa, Strong and Stable
• Jeremy, supporter of terrorism

Have those two prongs failed?

No apologies for the long post, if I don't someone will misquote it.

Here is the link if anyone wishes to verify:

www.labour.org.uk/index.php/splash/so-called-garden-tax?gclid=CPishJuoqdQCFe2d7QodRLIBrA

Where Labour controls the local council, households will pay on average £336 less this year than those living in Conservative areas.

Well ours has gone up significantly in this Labour council area.

Bombardier - can you tell me where the money is coming from to pay for everything?

Well ours has gone up significantly in this Labour council area.

Funny how averages work eh Piglet?

Aaaaarrgh! This is driving me crazy. If you borrow to invest in an economy that economy grows - like a tree - a "magic money tree" if you like - so there is more money grown on a well funded economy tree than an economy tree strangled into poverty and recession.

Do you see what I did there?

That's just one perception of how economy works, and it varies based on a lot of human and global factors, but MAKE NO MISTAKE it is an opinion many extremely notable economists share!!

Moussemoose
You say you'd like all rich people to leave.
What would be the cut off point at which you would like them to leave?
An income of £100,000 +
£500,000?
What about those who have valuable properties but not a huge income? Would you want them to leave too?
Also the people who would replace the rich owners to run their businesses. Who would appoint these new administrators?
Would the previous owners be paid for their businesses or would they be confiscated by the state?

strong and stable

strong and stable

strong and stable

There!
Has that fixed it?

Scaremongering police
Crying Wolf

I agree with dancingledge

"The good news is, this much effort to scare us all with rumours means they realise just how bad the Conservatives are looking in this campaign."

@Thiscant, various sources, primarily taxation. Increasing corporation tax, increasing income tax, and most importantly, closing loopholes.

A tax avoidance scheme last week was deemed to be unlawful, and as a result those taking part in it are now liable for £700 million tax. That's the tip of the iceberg, a concerted effort to close down all these schemes will bring in billions.

Corporation tax and income tax have been discussed at length, I won't bore you with my thoughts on them. But I don't believe either will result in people/ organisations leaving the UK - a poor Brexit package would have a far greater impact. The Labour Party has Keir Starmer heading up their Brexit negotiations, if you're not aware of him it's well worth looking him up, a QC who has made a career out of managing tough negotiations.

I think people are getting things out of perspective because they think all these things are going to happen at once. This is a long term plan for the future. And some of the measures will generate revenue that can support other measures, investing in the regions for one.

More than anything, I see a plan, some of which may not come to fruition, but all steps in the right direction. A focus on change, on giving opportunity to everyone. I've seen nothing of the Tory policies because their campaign has chosen to focus on pulling other people's ideas apart. That's not strong, it's childish.

DanDanDan

"All the wealth will be redistributed across other countries!"

A very convincing argument....

The Tories are throwing around false claims to try and distract from their own policies.
But I've quoted some of my post from the Labour Land Campaign
www.labourland.org/
Is that a Tory plot or a Labour run campaign?

John McDonnell lists the land value tax on his current webpage so not an out of date idea at all.
www.john-mcdonnell.net/about_john_mcdonnell

I'll rephrase - can you give me the actual name of any Labour spokesperson willing to say that the land value tax will not be introduced on residential property? It may well be introduced for businesses then? Farmland? Second homes? Buy-to-lets?

I really hope they do introduce a land tax. Most other civilised countries have one - even some less civilised ones, like the US. :)

It would help keep a lid on house price inflation, which has been so destructive in the UK in recent years.

What better source of much needed tax payments than the vast unearned wealth gained through house price inflation, which is currently not taxed at all?

Bring it on. If you don't want to pay - easy peasy, sell your expensive house.

It's about as fair and progressive as tax gets.

Sadly, I don't think Labour actually have any plans to introduce it, despite a super-scaremongering thread title.

The Tories are throwing around false claims to try and distract from their own policies.

You're right, Clarinova, they are.

And more than one of them is pretending that "The Labour Party" is the same as any pressure group with the name "party" or "labour" in its name.

Just look at some of these schemes that are in the Conservative Party Manifesto, and bound to be implemented exactly as described if they get into power:
mondoweiss.net/2014/03/conservatives-for-palestine/
conservativetendency.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/ten-reasons-to-be-chaste.html
www.conserve-energy-future.com/various-ways-to-conserve-water.php
www.partycity.com/category/balloons.do

Where Labour controls the local council, households will pay on average £336 less this year than those living in Conservative areas.

For want of a better way of saying this.
Labour controlled councils are usually places that have smaller properties than Conservative councils. So of course conservative councils are going to charge more averaged out.

But I've quoted some of my post from the Labour Land Campaign
www.labourland.org/
Is that a Tory plot or a Labour run campaign?

It's neither, the Labour Land Campaign are an independent group and not affiliated to the Labour Party. They have some members in common, that's it.

I'd have thought you'd have checked that before relying on it as a source of information.

Perhaps John McDonnell ought to amend his web page then to avoid any confusion because it definitely says John campaigns for a land value tax and he's the Shadow Chancellor.

www.john-mcdonnell.net/about_john_mcdonnell

It's neither, the Labour Land Campaign are an independent group and not affiliated to the Labour Party. They have some members in common, that's it.

So the Shadow Chancellor is a member then? The Financial Times stated that he was a member in October 2015.

So the Shadow Chancellor is a member then? The Financial Times stated that he was a member in October 2015.

I believe he is/ was, yes. His personal views may not reflect those of the Party.

Bombardier - Thank you for your reply.

Although I agree that the policies you have outlined will undoubtedly bring in vast sums of money I do not believe it adds up to the many billions that are needed to fulfil the list of promises that have been made. I totally agree that the loopholes in tax avoidance have to be closed and I read about that case last week. I found it ironic that celebrities like Bob Geldoff and Gary Linekar were involved when they have prominent left wing views but I won't rant on about that.

I do think some individuals and organisations will relocate or change their work patterns. The "brain drain" is well documented and research has shown that people will only pay so much tax. It seems to get forgotten that the top 5% do already pay a large proportion of tax at the moment.

We will have to agree to disagree but if Labour get elected on June 8th and form a government on June 9th I hope I am proved wrong.